It's Not A Vacation, It's A Family Trip

Quinn: [00:00:00] It is a rule that they will not have to go to the bathroom until they say, prepare for landing, put your tray tables up and it will be an emergency. Not just one of those annoying ones where they're yelling and you're like, you're gonna be fine. Like, why did you do this? Like they're gonna shit themselves now they're like nine and it's not great.

Welcome to Not Right Now, the podcast about parenting through all of this.

Claire: We'll be talking about slash crashing out over topics like

Quinn: Reproductive rights, and who left this granola bar wrapper in their pocket before laundry and or stuffed into the couch or just on the floor. And I'm asking who left it, even though I know exactly who left it.

Claire: Digital footprints and actual muddy footprints all over the floor and hand prints on the glass.

Quinn: It's not an advice show.

Claire: It's a you're not alone and you're also not crazy for screaming in the shower kind of show. I'm Claire Zulkey from Evil Witches.

Quinn: And I'm Quinn Emmett from [00:01:00] Important, Not Important.

Claire: You can find details in anything we talk about in the show notes or at our website, not right now dot show.

Quinn: Dot show. And if you like what you hear today, please share it with a parent who needs it or who might laugh and tell their kids to be quiet and then drop us a nice little five star review.

Claire: And reminder you can send questions or feedback to questions at not right now.show.

Quinn: We're both just off spring break. I mean, you were a little while ago.

And we are just back a few days ago. We had been talking about doing this before our spring breaks talking about travel and you had mentioned in a text or something how we really shouldn't call vacations with kids vacation which feels cliche.

'cause it's true. 'cause a lot of times things are true, just like boys are dumb. We are. So let's talk about that, and I wanna get into what we've learned, what we haven't, what's worked and all that kind of shit.

And I would [00:02:00] love if listeners, please, and I'm sure you've got 'em, write in with your best slash most hellish travel stories, antidotes, lesson learned, any of that kinda things, if you've opted out entirely or you're one of those ambitious people. I've got a buddy. He’s like, oh, well, where should I take my kids for spring break?

I think it was last year. And he's like, I mean, we've gone to, you know, 17 countries and I was like, we're not doing any of that shit. Why? His kids are tiny. Anyways. I want to hear first let's talk about your experience growing up because obviously so much of our parenting if not consciously is rooted in our monstrous upbringings.

Did your family travel at all? Even if it was like 20 minutes to a fucking rented lake shack or more ambitiously. How did it go? Any rituals, anything you despised and didn't look forward to, give it to me.

Claire: Well, I was very privileged, which I didn't of course realize until later in life. I thought this was just the case. My dad is an attorney with a big law firm, so his firm would have these like meetings every year. [00:03:00] And we would travel along with them. So, I remember clearly were like Boston or Colorado Springs, Bermuda.

Quinn: This is all from Chicago.

Claire: Yeah. Yeah. And there was a place called the, it still is there, it's a place called the Green Dryer in West Virginia, which is like a big old resort, America's resort. And those were fun for me 'cause you'd have friends that you'd go see and hang out with, while the parents did their thing.

And my parents were also big civil warheads. So my brother and I would do –

Quinn: Which side?

Claire: Oh, well, obviously we're northerners, but we saw a lot of battlefields, Vicksburg, things like that. So we did a lot of domestic travel and you know, and some nice stuff for sure, like fancy travel as well.

So, it wasn't until later in life that I was like, wow, not everyone can do this, which brings me shame. And also I'm grateful for the experiences I had. And I like, you know, am wistful, my kids' babysitter, she's in high school and she just went to [00:04:00] Paris and Spain with school.

And I was thinking like, there's nothing like being a young and getting taken somewhere and shown around and having all of your logistics planned for you and having some grownup plan this for you. So, yeah, my parents were into travel which I was again, very thankful for and grateful for.

Not everyone else gets to experience it, so that was pretty, pretty lucky for me. How about you guys? What was your travel experience like?

Quinn: Were you thankful and grateful in the moment? Did you always handle it so well or were there times you're like, fuck off, I wanna stay with my friends and smoke weed somewhere.

Claire: The one time I was an asshole. I remember, I think I was in high school and my dad would take us skiing once a winter and that was our trip to give my mom a break more than anything else. And I was in high school.

Quinn: So she didn't come? She opted out?

Claire: No.

Quinn: Oh, what a hero. That's the original not right now. She's like, I'm just not doing it.

Claire: Well, one time we took it through a resort or a ski town that I won't name, but it's known for being a very fancy ski town.

And I skied and I hurt myself in a minor way, and the trip was [00:05:00] aborted and I had to come home early. And my mom was, she's still mad about that, that her time was cut down. And I learned from her, honestly, like early on was like, learned to have no shame about being a mom who's like, I need you guys to go away, or I need to go away.

I need my own time. But I remember that year I was like, in high school and reading Salinger and I was like, what's the point of the, you know, just like the worst, like the girl in White Lotus who thinks she's a Buddhist until she's like, the food's not really that good. But you know, we did a lot of like hotels with pools and things like that and that was always fun.

And my mom was a real believer of you go to any museum and you get to go to the gift shop afterwards. So they were good at you know, kind of giving you carrot and stick. She did make me keep a travel journal, which you were making fun of me 'cause I was remembering all the details from our trip to Mexico City.

Quinn: I was like, she fucking made this whole thing up. There's no way any of this is real.

Claire: That was ingrained in me from an early age was to write down everything you did. 'cause you forget and you might wanna share the details with someone else who's going, or you might go back some day [00:06:00] or I don't know, it all washes away quickly. And I don't make my kids do that.

And of course they don't appreciate me at all for that 'cause they're ingrates. But yeah, I mean. I'm sure I was not always an angel, but we certainly had enough treats and fun and whatnot. You know, staying in a hotel is always a good time. So, yeah, I mean, they may feel differently.

And I remember when my brothers became like kind of pain in the ass and would be mopey and things like that. But you know, my parents took me to England and France and Spain. We went to Poland the year before I got married, which was an amazing experience.

So, you know, even in my young adulthood too, they would take us around places, but I wish I had more self-awareness earlier that there are certain careers where the travel is baked in. It's not just 'cause you choose not to go. It took me a long time to figure that out, which was embarrassing to me. But I'm still glad I got to do that.

Quinn: Email newsletters doesn't do it for you?

Claire: No, they're not sending me on these conferences like paying me to go to, you know, the resort or anything like that, but still working on it. We'll see.

Quinn: We're gonna get [00:07:00] there. That's great. Yeah, that's really interesting. I mean, ours was not that. I mean I was lucky to travel too. Not nearly to that extent. I think probably 'cause there were four of us and we were really fucking busy and the money situation was usually like, we're pretty good or we’re not.

Was it ever clear to you during a trip or after, besides that incredible story about your mom, that they regretted the entire thing? Was there ever an experience like two days into it where you could see they were just like, this was a fucking mistake. Like why did we bring them?

Claire: I don't think so. Not that I remember. I'll have to ask them. I mean, I certainly have a couple memories. I remember laughing because we took our kids to New Orleans a couple years ago and they were so disgusted by the French Quarter. Like they had their t-shirts over their noses.

'cause it does, make no mistake, smell like piss and vomit even on the best day. And I remember being a kid in New Orleans and being scandalized by, I think [00:08:00] walking by a nudie bar, you know, like a topless bar. And my mom, who is pretty conservative, going Claire, it's just how it is here or something like that.

And I was like, I don't think I'm supposed to be here. And so I was like you know, the tradition lives on of terrifying your kids.

Quinn: Yeah, a hundred percent.

Claire: Yeah, I mean interesting 'cause my husband, he grew up camping, like his parents they had a camper. Like they at one point dreamed of being like camp. Oh my gosh, what's the word for like when you live at a campsite and you're like the overseer, like the campground manager? I forget what it is. Camp director?

Quinn: Let’s call it that. Sure.

Claire: Yeah. And my mom is sort of a diva and would never in a million years, ever camp, ever. So my dad had fantasies about camping where he would buy us, for some reason, a 10 person tent and we camped in the backyard for one night, you know, and go inside at four in the morning, and get sick of it.

But, yeah, I mean it was cushy travel for sure. But yeah, I don't remember any like huge shit shows per se.

Quinn: Well, that's great. I mean, I'm sure we had shit shows, I'm sure [00:09:00] was some combination of, we were three boys and then my sister, like fucking morons, you know, degenerate fucking morons. So, I'm sure we ruined most things. Like we did on a day-to-day basis.

But yeah, again, we were so busy and I think it was probably so fucking expensive to take four kids anywhere. So for a little while, I was very lucky that most of my older childhood, I had one set of grandparents in my neighborhood and one set of grandparents about four miles away, basically from 11 to 18.

That was pretty amazing. Which I've now tried to really recreate here. But before that my mom's parents were down in Marco Island, Florida doing the retiree thing. And so we would take trips down there once or twice a year. Often without my dad, which I think was a work thing, but [00:10:00] I don't think was a mutually agreed decision. 'cause traveling with four morons alone is not something someone chooses to do.

Claire: No, I think that must be a big difference is having at least more than one boy. 'cause my brother was, I was very well behaved and my brother, I think, I dunno if he'd be different, if he had another boy there.

Quinn: So that was a lot. But we would get down there and it would be great. And you know, Marco Island is Florida, so, you know, kamikaze level mosquitoes at all times. So they had a little pool in their backyard, but it was completely covered over with, you know, net or whatever.

So if you stayed in there, you were good. And we would just stay in 24/7 basically. And then my amazing tiny little grandma would give us Frosted Flakes over and over. So we did that a lot. I think that was like, here's your travel. And the other thing we did a lot now back in, you know, the town I grew up in, we're about just under two and a half hours from the Outer Banks in North Carolina, which is really great.

There's a lot that's changed, but [00:11:00] there's a lot that hasn't. It's a very finite area, geography. So you can't really build a lot. I mean, it's all gonna fucking go away in 20 years. It's already starting to, but we would go to the northern half, which is what they call the Duck and Corolla and places like that.

And basically, usually what we would do is every summer we would go for one, then we got older, we would go for two weeks. And I think it was just a way to keep us busy. Not a far drive when you really think about it. Just the goal was like, get the kids there and we would stop by, what was it called, Price Club, do you remember Price Club? Early Costco, you know, they would get 70 fucking jars of pasta sauce and go down. And a lot of times we would do at least one of the weeks in a house with some of my dad's college roommates and their kids who were great guys and their kids were great. So we kind of didn't grow up together, they were all over the country, but we would do those trips once a year and that was really fun. And again, as I'm sure you know, most of the time having more [00:12:00] children around who get along is actually easier than fewer children.

Claire: Oh yeah.

Quinn: So I think that was probably a good cheat code for them to be able to hang out, but also to be like, great.

They don't want anything to do with me and I don't want anything to do with them. This is when it's a beach, they can't fucking go anywhere. So that was nice. I'm sure we ruined it all the time. I don't have any specific memories. I think part of that's just dementia and blacking things out.

But that was nice. There were a lot of kids running around. That was really fun. I did always really enjoy that. And now we kind of do the same thing. We try to go for a week a year sometime in the summer. And Dana didn't really grow up doing that and she had some water issues. So, and obviously there's fucking sand everywhere.

Things I gloss over now which we had to learn a bit. And also a beach can be two different things to your kids. At first, it's a wide open canvas, which means there's nothing to do, and then soon it becomes a wide open canvas and they never get out of the fucking ocean. At least mine do. They never run out of shit to do.

Claire: No, it's interesting 'cause we don't do beach vacations 'cause we live by the [00:13:00] beach, so we don't need to go to that. And then, and also we're Midwesterners so we're scared of the ocean. And then yeah, all of our relatives, by and large, at least the ones with kids are here. So we're not traveling to see family.

We have some Phoenix relatives, but that's a whole other story for another time. But yeah, otherwise, that was like us for as well. Like you're not traveling to see family by and large. So, yeah, it's interesting how different destinations are different touchstones basically.

Quinn: Yeah, I think we did Disney once, which I'm sure was a disaster. And I'm sure my parents were mad at us because we would have two bites of a sandwich and then not eat it. And they'd be like that's all of our dough.

Claire: That's why I don't take our kids to Disney is 'cause I'm like, I can tell how mad I would be.

Quinn: I was talking to a mom about that, the baseball game last night. We were saying she was like I think for Christmas, we're gonna try to do an experience over stuff. 'cause I'm tired of stuff. I was like, yes, I'm fully in. But I said, you know, but don't plan something where you're gonna be on a short fuse the entire time. 'cause that's not fair to you or them. And it's just [00:14:00] self-sabotage, right? Don't do that. Find something that's lower stakes, both money things for them to do that kinda shit.

I mean, it'll still blow up in your face, but that's just inevitable. But yeah, you know, inevitably, like my older brother's four and a half years older than me, my younger brother's two years younger than I am. And my sister's another four years after him. So we were pretty spaced out, you know, so we would go to the beach or whatever.

I think we went skiing like twice ever. They were pretty spaced out. I mean, my sister's six years younger than I am, she's 10 years younger than my older brother, so he could be 14 and like going out on the boardwalk at night 'cause they were like, get the fuck outta here.

You know, it's late eighties, early nineties. But they still have a 4-year-old to deal with at home. So it was like a long stretch of people who are a pain in the ass. Even though I'm sure my sister at four was easier than my brother at 14 and meanwhile there's me at 10 and 11 just destroying everything.

Yeah, again, it was like, sometimes money's good and sometimes [00:15:00] it's not, but also it costs a lot either way. And we used up a lot of capital to do those trips to see family. And then once they moved there, we didn't do that as much. I think we just really honestly stuck with the beach thing.

It was easy, you know, and it, again, it grew to two weeks and they just wouldn't even see us for two weeks at that point. They were just like, get out, you know, which is easier for sure. But then again everyone had jobs and shit, so we didn't do a lot. But because my brother was so much older, the one international trip we did do, he somehow went abroad to Oxford for a semester when he was in college.

So I was in, you know, early high school, middle school, and then everyone after me and we went and saw him there at the end of that, I think. And then he went up, he went later, but we went and we did London and Ireland and drove around and my dad just driving a stick shift van around Ireland where [00:16:00] not only are you driving on the other side of the car, but the stick shift isn't with your other hand just furious the whole time.

Claire: Yeah. That's so funny.

Quinn: But I think I was like maybe 14 or 15. That was pretty impressionable on me. It was like, oh, you know, even though that's, you know, the closest, analogy to here, but it was still like, oh, there's some really cool history there. But I'm sure it was extremely expensive. So yeah, I dunno. That was kind of our history.

Claire: I'm not ready to do jetlag with my kids yet. I mean, we went to Columbia a couple years ago for a family wedding with them, and we left at, I think our flight was at 6:00 AM so we left the house at 3:00 AM and our younger kid with ADHD was so keyed up that he was awake since 11:00 PM the night before.

And so we could not figure out when to give him his ADHD meds. I mean, you have to give to him just a function, you know, but then you like to give him another round, bedtime that night was a disaster. And so if there's anyone listening who has traveled with kids who have ADHD and have cracked the [00:17:00] code on how to medicate your kid or when to give them their medication, I welcome that.

'cause I also remember, I remember being the first time I had jetlag and a friend of mine just took her kids to Europe around Christmas. Her in-laws splurged for a trip for the whole family to France and England. And her kids were such sloppy messes. Her older son was like, I wish I was home with Paul, which was cute to me, but she was like, shut up.

And she said, I didn't anticipate not only their jet lagged, but me being jet lagged on top of it.

Quinn: Yeah, when we were in LA and people would take their kids to Europe and then they would come back and they'd be like, I mean, it was okay. I'm like, it wasn't, you're just fucking saying that because, it's impossible. So we did our first international one over Christmas. Because basically my kids were young enough before Covid and basically we would come here every summer for six, eight weeks, something like that.

Right. And that was great. And then we would do Christmas too, like not a lot of bandwidth to do other shit. And we didn't want to, we didn't have the money to do it. We were too busy, this and [00:18:00] that. And then Covid knocked out a lot of that so we didn't do a lot forever.

But then this Christmas, I looked up December 10th or something, realized after Christmas, my kids were gonna be outta school for an additional 12 days straight. And I was like, we're not fucking doing that at home. It's not happening. What do I do? And I knew like standard resort for three days or whatever, wasn't gonna cut it for anyone involved.

So we did the London thing and the East Coast is definitely easier than I imagine California would've been. The kids are a bit older, but it was so last minute and remarkably for us, and by that I mean me, we just tried to make it as low stakes as humanly possible. We were just like, no, the trip isn't shove as much in as possible, including the greatest hits.

It was just being somewhere, being there. So if they woke up at fucking noon, like we don't have anywhere to go. We're just, and we see one thing a day.

Claire: Right, on vacation.

Quinn: And that lowering the stakes was extremely helpful.

Claire: [00:19:00] Very good advice for me once was just like, schedule one thing per day maximum, you know? And then once I traveled with a friend of mine and I learned from watching her just to never let the kids get hungry, ever.

There's no point, just snacks constantly. If they barely eat at dinner, who cares?

Quinn: Well, and that's the thing, it's a trip. It doesn't fucking matter. Just do whatever the thing is, pack snacks, bring snacks, if you can bring like familiar snacks from home so you don't have to put up with that shit. 'cause God forbid you bring a different type of granola bar and they're like, I don't like it.

It's oats. I don't know what to fucking tell you. So again, the whole you can't call a trip with kids a vacation. It's a family trip. Have you had a vacation yet? Was Mexico City a vacation and again, we've talked a lot about like setting expectations here and redefining what words mean, but we've had adult vacations I feel like, so have you gotten close to vacation with the children at all or is it still just?

Claire: Yeah. Well, one thing that was kind of ironic was that a bummer literally was that both my husband and my older son got traveler's illness.

And it truly it [00:20:00] really was, it was rough on them and they both had to skip at least one cool adventure. And we made it through again, doing that with a kid who's old enough to get himself to the toilet. And say his symptoms and to be able to eat, you know, a little bit, like God I can't imagine doing that with a baby. But in a weird way that kind of forced us to shake things up a little bit.

And if one of us were with the kids all day, we would take a turn and someone would do a little sight seeing on their own, which is great. And people have told me that in the past anyways, if you travel with family, do what you can do to break things up and if you can get one person to watch the kids for a couple hours so you can just go be by yourself for a little bit, that is so huge.

Not just for your own pleasure, but just to, just get away from your family for a second.

Quinn: I am not good at that. No one needs that more than me or my wife, and I'm the monster who's no, we should experience everything together. I ruin it.

Claire: Yeah, you sound like my husband who like wants to spend as much time together as possible and I'm still selfish and I'm still partially like a college student studying abroad where I'm like, no, I want my [00:21:00] adventure. Like I want my wanderlust, like Steve took the kids on a Monday.

All the real museums were closed. So we went to all these bullshit museums and one of the ones that the kids wanted to go to was the Ripley's Believe It or Not. And I put my foot down. I'm like, I'm not going there. I'm not doing that. And so he took them and I wandered around. I found some monument, I walked myself to, I went to a grocery store and just looked around, you know, just like to just be alone for a little bit.

Quinn: Fucking Ripley’s, Jesus Christ. And my kids said the same thing when we went to London, 'cause there's one near where I used to live and we walked by, they're like, let's go to Ripley's. I was like under no condition.

Claire: Just like the ancient Aztecs, you know? And another thing that turned out really well, which just happened to be a coincidence, was that Mexico City's a hot spot right now for some reason. It seems like a lot of people I know are going. But another family from our hometown was there at the same time as us, and they have boys exactly the same age as ours.

So they came to our hotel pool and they swam together and we like hung out and went out for dinner together. And of course, you know, you're yelling at them a little bit and [00:22:00] tell 'em to stop this or we told 'em to stop making fun of the menu at the restaurant. Of course, we went to this like taco place.

It's extremely casual, but like Anthony Bourdain went there. So, you know, bow down, but the kids are like, oh, those eyeballs, eyeball tacos. You know, they're making fun of the menu and Steve is like, shut up. This is their food, you know? So, but again, just to talk to another grownup, especially for me to have another woman to talk to just for a little bit, you know, they told me the phrase triple A which stands for age appropriate asshole, when they are trying to discern whether their son is being like a real problem versus you know, 13, typical 13.

So anyway, those are some things that really worked out in our favor. And also having a pool, I think a pool is like screen time, but without the screen where, you know, either one parent can take them or the other parent can take them. And if you're being a father of the year, like my husband, you can go swim with them.

Or you can be a bitch like me and say, no thanks, and you get, you know, your little quiet time. So yeah, it was great. But I think once you graduate [00:23:00] past nap time, things really get better for you. I think traveling with a kid who is on a nap time schedule, or who doesn't eat in a chill way, those are two things that are really hard, make it way more stressful.

Quinn: So let's pause there and do some you know, candid commiserating here. 'cause we've talked mostly about when our children have been older. You're gonna do fewer trips usually when the kids are younger, like you were just saying. Nap time, bottles, diapers, sleep schedules.

They literally only eat a few different foods, that kinda stuff, have to have a particular stuffy, all that shit. So you do less like optional stuff, but there is usually some sort of required of some version, right? Family stuff, Christmas, whatever it might be. How did those go for you guys and any particular sort of horror stories or terrible things?

Because we, I mean we started this cross country travel thing when they were 3 under 3 and they were, you know, there's no direct flights. Again, we were lucky to do it, to be able to see family twice a year and do it, but holy fuck. If [00:24:00] we had done one of those flights and then had to turn around, even a week later, much less like four days later.

I mean, we were put in six weeks between 'em. I mean, my wife and I would take two weeks and just cry basically after each one of those, We were telling the kids the other day, they were like, whoa, imagine pooping yourself. I'm like, funny fucking story bud. You know, used to shit up your whole back 45 minutes into a six hour flight and that was the rest of my day.

And that was the first flight, like all the time. At any given moment, all that shit, it was a fucking nightmare.

Claire: Yes it never happened to me, but I learned from other friends always pack a change of clothes for not only your child but yourself in your carry on for just that reason. Like I said, we don't really visit family that much 'cause my in-laws are cat hoarders and like they don't have a guest room for us, and I'm allergic to cats. But I do remember visiting some friends who they used to live in Chicago, now they live outside Seattle and they have boys and they have a big house. We went to go stay with them. But our younger son, James was still like a napping toddler at that age.

And I remember we pulled up to their [00:25:00] house and he had finally fallen asleep in the car and we left him in the car to stay sleeping while we started having like wine and cheese with them. And I remember being like, are we dick's for leaving him sleeping in the car?

But it was like a grenade. You know what I mean? You're like, am I gonna take this grenade out of its car seat or am I just gonna let it sleep here quietly.

But he never got over the time change. So he would wake up at 4:00 AM PST and someone would have to get up with him, and that would be me.

So I would get up with the kids, go creep downstairs, and try to keep them quiet for two or three hours while they are, you know, playing with other people's toys and being bored and that was so exhausting and I was so resentful of that. And again, that's why I've been very careful about time changes and things like that.

And staying in someone else's house, which can be great, but if your kid is not cool or not chill, you know, won't entertain himself, then that is, you know.

Quinn: Opening cabinets. You're like, I don't know if that one's a no-no. What is that? It's just it's not, it's much better to go to a, I think [00:26:00] even though it's stressful like a hotel or Airbnb or whatever, than like someone else's actual house where they're like, there's all kinds of rules and it’s not great.

Claire: Yeah. And the light is different. You know, the sound is different, things like that. Like that was a big one for me. I also remember it was just like a really random trip and this wasn't even a big deal, but like my college bestie was gonna be in Cleveland.

And she was like, you wanna meet us there? And we're like, sure. Why the hell not? I think, 'cause we didn't have any expectations. We're like, this will be fine. And on the one hand I will say, Cleveland is a great place to visit with kids. I highly recommend. But that was one of our first times in a hotel with our kids and they were two little for two separate rooms and we had one kind of semi suite and it was like time to go to bed, but it was summertime, so it was still light out. So of course they're not asleep and I'm trying to get them to go to sleep. And my husband, I was like, you go take your time.

You can go read or have dinner or whatever. And I remember trying to get my kids to settle down and they were in bed with me, which I don't normally do. I remember this so viscerally, but I am just trying to get them quiet. And my younger kid again, it's [00:27:00] always him. Sorry James, if you ever listen, is goofing around and moving around and he accidentally shoves his little baby finger so far up my nose that I was like, I was worried that something like had been damaged completely.

Just the way he shoved it in there so hard. I also remember that was one of the few times we spanked him because he like ran down the street and looked over his shoulder and laughed at us while he ran into the street. And my husband like grabbed him and spanked him out of that terror fear.

I'm not excusing this. It was just a matter of like instinct, but like these are the things that live with you.

Quinn: It's the whole phrase. Any parent understands the phrase of I would never shake my baby, but I totally get why people do it. Yeah, 'cause you get into these fucking fight or flight moments that are insane.

Claire: Yeah. Yeah. So these are a few things. I also have, I have a picture of my son crawling on me. We took him to Boston and he was just a real nightmare on this trip. Again, it was like a real try to get him to nap. He never falls asleep. I remember driving around with him in the car [00:28:00] screaming his head off, like having a tantrum and we were just waiting for him to tire himself out and fall asleep.

But that's such a shitty, like you just feel like you're in jail, basically. Like screaming baby jail, like waiting for this child to fall asleep in the car. So that I guess you can just keep driving then in quiet, as you're, you know, and his poor brother. No wonder his brother never wants to hang out with him.

'cause he's like a smoke detector that's always going off and you're just hoping that eventually the batteries will wear off.

Quinn: This made me think of there's families and friends and adults and kids like you can be best friends in the world with, but you definitely should not travel with.

And it's either because of your family or their family, or again, like high stakes, high stress, do this, their rituals versus your settings for different things. And this is one of the dangers of sharing a house or staying in someone else's house, right. With your kids. It's like we keep our house cold as fuck because our kids go to sleep better, they get cozy under some blankets, they go to sleep.

It's great. You go to somebody else's house and you're like, oh, you keep your thermostats at [00:29:00] 76 at night. That's gonna be a fucking problem. Because it's gonna be a huge penny in the ass. You don't wanna set it, you don't want to ask them, you don't want to be rude. It becomes a whole thing. And that's why if we do hotels or something like that, we're like, kids are old enough now, we shove 'em all in one room and deal with it. But the more we can, again, in a self-aware way, be like, no, we need to do our shit and everyone's gonna win if we do our shit, that'll be easier. But we've had a few things where we've had to, you know, so we didn't really do it when they were older and then Covid and such, and now they're in school.

But at one point Dana was going to New York to make a movie, How To Be Single, I think it was. And so we went to New York for four months, three months, four months in the spring of 2015. And our oldest was two, not two and a half. The middle kid was, I don't know, six months, nine months, 10 months, I don't know.

And Dana was pregnant with our third one and shooting nights, like [00:30:00] the entire fucking time. We're staying in this very nice apartment that we got hooked up with, but was obscenely expensive and so much more than we budgeted for. And so again, she's pregnant. We've got a fucking like actual baby, and then we have another baby, and she's got a baby inside and nights are like a fucking nightmare. The only place we had for our daughter to sleep was in a hallway, which again, is what it is. It's fine in an actual crib, fine, but like she could hear everything obviously the whole time. And I don't know what her deal was.

But for four months, every night she would not sleep without one, screaming for two to three hours straight to the point where I was like, she's gonna throw up, you know, all that kinda shit. And I had to be rubbing her back the entire time for her to be able to fall asleep during those two to three hours.

And the second I took my hand off her back, started screaming again, turned over. I mean, I have like such horror movie visions in my mind of walking away and her, it's been like three hours. Like, how is it possible? How are you not exhausted enough? And that was like, [00:31:00] again, it was less like we were out of our systems and more just it is so hard.

It's so hard. And you're just like, why? Well, we're never doing this. We're not gonna travel. We're not gonna fucking do anything 'cause I can't do this. And obviously again, easier when they're bigger now, but fuck. And I remember we had, I mean, one of those flights our oldest, we brought, I don't know, $200 of fucking toys and treats for a six hour flight for him to fuck with. Screams mad the whole time until last 10 minutes, finds a plastic cup and is just so happy. Just crinkling this plastic cup, and I'm like, Jesus Christ.

Claire: You just made me think about the first time we flew with James and I was reading online, it is some of these genius tips, these travel tips that like sound so good until you realize like your kid did not read these tips online and didn't know, and someone was like, buy a bunch of little tiny toys and wrap them up individually in paper and then your kid will spend all their time opening these toys and playing with them.

And of course, like I spent way more time wrapping these things and shopping for them than James spent unwrapping them and he spends like 10 seconds [00:32:00] unwrapping them and then he is instantly bored with them.

Quinn: Throws it on the plane floor.

Claire: Yeah. Like these toys are all in the trash long, many years ago already, you know, and all we were waiting for was like, for him to be old enough to understand screens, basically.

I wish someone had just told me that or you know, when you're online you think that nobody hates anybody more than a baby on a plane. And then I dunno, I think you go on a plane ride, you're like, no, actually people hate people who drink too much on planes or take their shoes off on planes or, you know, don't have their earphones on. I feel like people understand a baby is like doing what it can do.

Quinn: I remember once a guy getting on a plane. They had a baby. They obviously prepared so much. The guy had made like gift bags for everybody in the seats around them. And I was like, what the fuck is wrong with us? That they feel like they have to, like Jesus Christ. Do you think they're excited about this?

Claire: I know. And also yeah. And I'm like, you know what, as a parent, here's a tip. Learn to not give a shit what anyone around you thinks, that's way more important.

Quinn: Don't fucking care.

Claire: We were talking the other day [00:33:00] about when you find real good parent friends and like how you know, and we talk about them a lot.

Maybe they're even listening, like these parent friends of ours and they have boys the same age as ours and we just happen to parent on the same level. I think we give a shit about the same things, you know, and we all went to Michigan right before Covid and we found this beautiful house, Suttons Bay, Michigan.

And I just remember I think we each had one moment a piece where we like got so mad at our kids and had to carry them horizontally. You know, like when they were like straight like a log and you're putting them under your arm. And just the gift it is to be able to do that in front of another parent and have them not look concerned or offer help or you know, give you advice, anything like that when they can just you know, the veil goes down and they let you do your thing and there's no, and they come back And even on top of that, even better as the mom is a nurse. So when James got attacked by a swarm of bees it was just nice that there was someone there who knew what to [00:34:00] do, you know? But you know, I remember on the other hand, I have a really good girlfriend.

They live in Val Parizzo, and we'd go stay with them 'cause they have a pool, but their kids got a lot more screen time than ours. And our kids were sharing rooms together. And I remember stressing out so much 'cause our kids like, need, like you know, pitch black tomb to fall asleep in.

And then this time they're sharing a room with this fun noise making device. And at the moment, and I don't regret this 'cause this is you know, sleep is very important, but being like, what are they gonna do? Like we're gonna have, like this night is gonna be all fucked up and it's gonna be like fucked up forever.

And like we were extremely stressed out about them sharing a room with a kid who had a device on all night. So, yeah, if you can find a friend who you can like, lose your shit on your kid in front of, without them getting in your way you know, and you all agree on the same bedtime, you know, or you all have the same philosophy about eating.

Hold onto those friends and kiss their asses

Quinn: Yeah and setting expectations and shit like that ahead of time for everyone is super helpful. [00:35:00] Including yourself again, like it's low stakes or here's the deal with bedtimes, here's how we're gonna do it. You guys are this, there's this, can we meet in the middle?

Can we just do this for meals? Who fucking cares, can they eat one cream thing on the trip. I will say one of the things that has actually really helped us that we stuck to, I guess set them up really well, is when they were little, somebody said don't make it, and again, they were all little at the same time.

Make sure your baby can't only sleep when it's quiet. They were like, make a fuck ton of noise. Leave the door open, whatever, while they're trying to go to sleep, whatever the deal is. Because if they can only sleep when it's quiet, you're fucked for 10 more years basically. And so we really tried to do that as much as possible.

I think that, and like shoving books in their cribs when they were very little in the morning was super helpful 'cause we were like. You got shit to do. Flip through 'em. Bored books don't care. But don't fucking call me until this time. We're not coming to get you. So the noise thing definitely was helpful.

I mean, you know, we can get to tricks of the trade in a minute. I have two other things. One is a great [00:36:00] story which is always horrifying. When you get to the end of it, it's very short. But we were walking through the JetBlue terminal at JFK. And our youngest was two and we're in between something and like you're saying, horizontal football carrying.

And I've got him, we're probably going to the bathroom 'cause he's gotta shit, but he doesn't wanna have to go to shit. Everybody knows that one. And he starts screaming, but he doesn't, it's the words he chooses. He starts screaming so loud, you have to take me back to my mommy, please give me back to my mommy. And I just sat there going, are you fuck? Truly say anything else. And people are fucking staring, it's not good. Please, you have to take me back to my mommy. Please take me back. And I'm like, I'm gonna fucking murder you. I'm gonna fucking, are you kidding me? It was such a hard, I mean, and then sneaking into the fucking bathroom.

I mean, all the bad signs, take me back [00:37:00] to my mommy. I was like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna murder this child. It was a nightmare. Yeah. That was good. So just to change the subject tiny bit. And then I think at the end, tips and tricks or, you know, shit we've learned, like all my bags I have pre-packed all the time with essential shit that I review every trip.

You talked about having friends that give a shit about the same things. And I know this isn't really what you meant, but you mentioned in your voice memoir earlier, like, how does this all square with sort of the important side of things and it's complicated. I do believe obviously this is the ability to do this and the perspective to do this is pretty privileged.

But I do think, just I think people need to actually turn off the fucking news and not do it all the time or not get your notifications and all that. You do need to be able to have a safe space with your family where you're just doing shit and not thinking about that stuff. 'cause you do have to live your life.

But that said, you know, it's easy to think, look, air travel is a nightmare. Sure. Because it's so intense on your footprint. [00:38:00] Right? If you want to use the footprint thing, that's mostly rich people. If you look at it, it's not even close. Most people don't travel by air, like still, in the world, even though that's gone up and up.

It's a minority of people who do most of the travel and it is very intense. So it'll be a big part of your footprint if you do it a lot. But even then, most people don't do a lot. And now so many people aren't doing as much business travel. Okay, so flying is a thing. There's some places you can only get to in a reasonable amount of time, on whatever continent you're on or across an ocean or whatever it might be by a plane.

So first things first. Carbon offsets are not real. They're a fucking sham. So any airline that offers you, cars, whatever it may be, that whole market is a complete sham. Carbon offsets are different from carbon removal. Carbon removal is the thing where we're trying to suck it outta the air.

It works, it's still very much in its infancy. We pull out very little and it's very expensive. But that's a whole separate thing. Anyways, [00:39:00] carbon offsets, that's not the answer. Like how I make my family feel less guilty to do this trip. Right. To me, it's less about, okay, well we also drive an electric car that cuts it down.

We also eat a plant-based diet. That's fairly helpful. We all do this, you know, we'll try to walk everywhere where we're going. That's all great. That's better for you. That's better for the places, you know, it's measurable, however you do it. I think there's more long lasting, impactful, like perspective shifting opportunities within the trip itself.

Besides those, I'm sure you've heard like the hard science, soft science stuff. Besides what is your footprint? Because you have, and you don't have to do this with every trip, but I do think there are ones where you can make this the trip. Or at least the majority of it. And there's ones where, and you just did a version of this, even if you don't know it, there's ones where you can kinda sprinkle this throughout, which [00:40:00] is exposing kids, especially to really different cultures and art and languages and food and all those different pieces.

There's so much xenophobia, there's so much America first, whatever it might be. Especially with Mexico and all these Central American, Latin American, South American countries and everywhere else, that's really meaningful most kids don't grow up and go to Mexico and they might have laughed at the menu and fuck them, but they're gonna at least remember it and they have experienced it.

And there's plenty of studies that show that like people who travel generally are more accepting of people who are not like them. Flat out. That's really important. And there's so many different, again, you can go to London or Canada, which kind of feels like cheating, but it does matter. Go to fucking Montreal.

It's basically France. They want it to be France. That's a little something. It's a little different, right? You can start with that. You can go to different places. You can also go to different places within the US to do that sort of thing, right? You can go to different parts of LA, you can go to New Mexico, [00:41:00] you can go to all these different places, like you said, New Orleans or the Deep South, whatever it might be, to experience really different cultures within the places we have.

And that really does matter. And again, you can also make a whole trip about this. So we have some friends from LA who are pretty wealthy and not like LA wealthy, but just, you know, they're pretty good, enough that they would do. And I'm gonna mess this up, like two, imagine two trips a year.

One was a nice vacation and the other one was like a family trip where they would go to Southeast Asia or something like that and basically be like, this is a volunteer. It was basically a mission trip without all the religious rigormoral. They're like, this is what we're doing. 'cause you're not only gonna see how everyone out, not even the other half, how most people live.

You're gonna experience and you're gonna participate and you're gonna help. And yes, it's fly in and fly out, but in a world where you can't do everything, you cannot help everyone. We hope this impacts you for later. And that shit, I do believe, does add up. It really can [00:42:00] be perspective shifting. It can stick with people.

And the other one is all of that, but for nature, right? The biggest thing, if I never do anything else in my entire career, I had a 30 minute phone call last year with Sesame Street about how do we talk about climate more? And there were a few other folks on the line. Sesame Street is a huge part of my life, my kids' life.

Daniel Tiger, you know, the whole thing. And they shifted, I don't know, it's 15 years ago, something like that, from focusing on, I think it was four to five year olds to three to four year olds, or it might've been even one segment down. And that's notable in your programming, in your audience.

But this question of like, how do you get kids who even have access to quote unquote nature of which we are, everyone says oh, we're in relationship with it. It's not we're of it. Like the trees are giving you the air. If they do have access or you can provide some sort of access for your kids or other kids, understanding that they are [00:43:00] in relationship with it can be the point of a whole trip or seated throughout in a lot of different ways.

You can walk through cities and go boy, it's really fucking hot here. It's weird that there's no trees or parts of differences. Notice like Los Angeles, there's parts of the city that have a ton of trees and there's parts that don't. You're like, I wonder why that is. Why is that? How do we experience that at home?

What is it like? Go to parks, go to cities that have a lot of parks, or just go on a hiking trip, make up your own, it doesn't have to be some fancy hosted thing, whatever. Or go on a hike one day, visit a stream. Is this protected? Is this part of a protected area or is it just still sort of wilderness?

Is it privately owned, whatever it might be. Going to the beach, going to the ocean, talking about that kind of stuff. There's a lot you can do again, like we're trying to do with the show without really hitting them over the head, but at the same time, developing, if not a full relationship, like just an appreciation of it.

Spending time in it in whatever way can really go a long way. And again, you guys live on the Great Lakes. It's a complicated area, you know, in a [00:44:00] lot of ways, but it really matters to understand like how precious and unique those are in the world. But you, again, you can do that anywhere truly, because it's all so different.

So we're doing this year, it's very expensive, but it's been on my list for my entire life and we're doing it for a lot of reasons. We're doing a trip to Alaska. And part of that is 'cause it's gonna be fucking amazing. Part of it is 'cause we are able to do it, and part of it is, it has already changed so much and it's, if I don't do it soon, it's, you know, gonna be very different.

And I want to experience it for myself, but also for them and before it changes too much. And that is one of those like all in trips where you're just like, well this is, you need to understand like what's here and what we're fighting for and things like that. So anyways that's kind of my spiel about it.

Again, it's a little like my work with this group called Good Energy, which is trying to get more climate stuff into films and TV.

It's easy to be like, this needs to be a climate show. Okay. Sure, that's great. But also, like every joke that we can [00:45:00] get into a 30 Rock or a New Girl like three times a season, that counts too because it's those little things that add up that normalize our relationship with this stuff and what's going on and all that kind of stuff.

So yeah, I believe there's a thousand different ways to do it. I think you can consider it in all things. But it adds up. Again, taking your kids to Mexico City, like yeah, it's hot and yeah, it's not that far, but I mean, they are our second biggest source of imports, like a huge culture that we've sort of destroyed, just incredible things about that place.

The country's enormous, has a thousand problems. Many of 'em are our fault. But the biomes are incredible.

Claire: One of my favorite things that we did while we were there, and this is just based, I lucked into this. A friend of mine, she took her boys to Mexico City and I copied her itinerary, but she recommended this tour guide. We used a company called Tours by Locals. And this woman took us to Xochimilco, the floating gardens outside Mexico City.

And she was amazing because she was giving us, you know, [00:46:00] on the, if you wanted to, this could just be a booze cruise trip, basically, where you float around and drink beer, you know. But she's from Mexico City and she talked about how this was what Mexico City looked like before it was colonized on the water.

And she talked about how people make a living because I was like, is this a nice place to live? 'cause you know, in Chicagoland, if you live like on the chain of lakes and you have a house on the lake with a boat, you've got it made. And she was talking about how this is agricultural.

But even more so, we hopped off the boat to visit the farm of the guy who was piloting our boat around and we all planted some seeds and she showed us how they plant seeds and she showed us how they make a living. And then at one point even, Anhill, the guy who was pushing our boat around, his stick got stuck in the mud and another woman came by on her boat and pulled the stick out to give it to him.

And Anna, our tour guide, was saying, this is what life on the water is like, where you help each other out, you know? And again, it was just beautiful and stunning and there's so much great wildlife and we had such a beautiful time. But it was that context.

And also [00:47:00] just as a parent, like the not right now of it, having a professional who's used to kids, honestly, like they've seen it all, you know? And even if you're exhausted, like James was, he wanted to use my phone to take pictures and I was like, I don't wanna use my phone to take pictures. And she let him use her phone and sent me the pictures.

It was so kind, you know, just a little simple thing like that.

Quinn: Because if you think your kids are being assholes, she's definitely seen worse. Like they've always, it is like a pool lifeguard. Like they've always fucking seen worse.

Claire: Yeah. So, yeah, I was so glad we did that. And I would do that again, like in a second. So, just to get that little extra piece of context, you know, I mean, it's money, you know, it's extra money, but I think it was worth it.

Quinn: And by the way, they might not fucking remember, but it can add up. I'm gonna send you, and I'll put in the show notes, this really incredible link I found. I mean, Mexico City, the story of it is incredible. Like the way it was built out of water, basically, it's this incredible like 3D historical view of like literally what it looked like a thousand years ago as they started to raise it outta nothing.

It's unreal.

Claire: I will say my kids were so excited that we [00:48:00] could drink so much bottled water there, because at home I get so mad at them all the time there's bottled water and, you know, on this trip there's no choice. So they were like, sweet, finally, we can fuck it up as much as we want.

Quinn: That's right. Fuck. Burn it down. Fuck. God damnit. Again, this is not an advice show, but, you know, tips and tricks besides just lessons learned, like anything really practical. And if you can start, I've got a few, whatever you want to do.

I think again, especially if you've got younger kids, you're like, no the wrapping in presence every 30 minutes thing, like Jesus Christ what actually fucking works? What can you rely on?

Claire: This is not, these are not clever or special or anything like that. These are things that we literally used this trip. If your kid is on screens old enough to be on screens, set an alarm to go off a half an hour before you begin your descent. Because if your kids are like mine, they are so obsessed with getting the unfettered screen time and also the drinks, like for them, my kids like pop and juice, like whatever you want is a treat.

So they get so [00:49:00] wrapped up in their screens and the beverages. I mean, I texted you this, they don't notice that they have to go to the bathroom until we're locked in, you know, literally on the descent. So make them go to the bathroom before you land. Otherwise you're gonna be all mad, you know, especially if you're like us and our flight had to abort it's landing and you ended up landing 45 minutes later.

The old walking around the block while you wait for your food to come. Oldie but a goodie.

Quinn: You also texted me that. Yep. It's, but it counts. Yep. We're going, sorry.

Claire: 'cause, our younger son was just A-D-H-D-I don't know what, like he was being a little extra caliente our last night and could not just be normal for a minute. So just went for a walk until the food came, you know, just get up and do it.

Don't be ashamed. Just do what you gotta do. And I would say we didn't do it this time 'cause I didn't think we would have to, but there was so much traffic getting from our airport to the hotel. 'cause it was like some kind of, I dunno if it was like a protest or whatever, but like you said, pack snacks in your carry-on because [00:50:00] just imagine you will get home or to your hotel or your Airbnb after all the restaurants have closed or after you feel comfortable not to go to the market, bring heavy snacks, just in case that you all need to eat something satisfying and you can't acquire food. So even if that's domestic travel, I don't think you'd be sad about that. So those are a few things off the top of my head that we would recommend. Yeah. How about you?

Quinn: Yeah, I mean those are, again, you only find out about those one way. And it's a hundred percent true. I mean, the bathroom thing, it is like a fucking rule that they will not have to go to the bathroom until they say, prepare for landing. Put your tray tables up and it will be an emergency. Not just one of those annoying ones where they're yelling and you're like, you're gonna be fine.

Like, why did you do this? Like you, they're gonna shit themselves now they're like nine and it's not fucking great. You know? That's real shit. No question. So yes, set the alarm, here's the deal, you're going and they're gonna be like, I already tried. I don't have to, don't care. I'm gonna fucking march you back there and lock [00:51:00] you in there until you try and guess what?

You're gonna have to go 'cause I'm an adult and you're wrong. So do it every time. Same as, I mean, just truly like driving around town. Go to the bathroom. I went an hour ago, nobody cares. That's not what I asked. Go to the fucking bathroom. It really matters. So my biggest cheats are again, usually centered around sleep stuff, but also again, since we do so little screen time I think it really helps.

So I have, there's these little bags and you can get whatever fucking bag you want. There's these bags from Patagonia called Black Hole Bags, and they come in all different sizes. And I've got ones, I'll put 'em in the show notes. They're this big size of a, I don't know, like a loaf of bread.

Like what the fuck is this size? I don't know.

Claire: Yeah.

Quinn: Sure. And I have a few of them. So these bags, they're different colors. They've got labels on 'em. They remain in my travel drawer, not the kids' travel drawer, whatever that is. And they're not to be fucking touched ever except for when we're traveling.

So one is kids chords. Okay, [00:52:00] so what's in there, and it's not just chords, but it's a lot of chords, is there is a little sound machine that I can't recommend enough that I will put in the show notes with a plug and it can run on battery, but don't, it'll fucking turn off halfway through the night.

It's got a light on it too, so you can use it as a nightlight and pro tip. Second one, you put in the kid's bathroom at night so they can find the fucking bathroom. So, it's got a wall plug. All the things you need, they're going to bed, you plug it in. Sounds like home. Super easy.

Great. Doesn't matter how noisy it is, whatever. 'cause the goal here is not teach 'em a lesson, it's to go to fucking sleep. That's in there. There is a, I think it's from Anchor, a three prong wall plug thing. And it's got big label on it, and I think it says like kids iPads and on the other side it says do not fucking take one of these cords.

And the cords are sticking out of it, and it's exactly what they need for their devices. And that's, they're not using my cords when we get there. They're not taking 'em from somewhere else like their headphones. That's what it's for. That's where it goes. That's what it does. There is, so [00:53:00] we got a few years ago two different things we're kind of, do you remember the old picture of and I'll find it.

It's here's all the analog devices an iPhone replaced, right? Compass, camera, all that. We're kind of going in reverse on that and trying to do a little more intentional and analog. 'cause it can still be a great experience. It's worked so far. So two things we got are, kids have Kindles which we really only take out for travel or like driving an hour or more.

The rest of the time we just do hard books. But don't take those on a trip 'cause they'll finish 'em or they'll lose them and you're fucked. Kindle can have however many, Kobo is also really great. We really love those two. Label them, set them up ahead of time. Download the fucking books ahead of time.

Charge 'em, a Kindle charge will last fucking weeks if you're good. Those stay in the same drawer. They're ready to go. They're good to go, charge 'em the night before and they're in business. Make sure the books are downloaded. 'cause you probably won't have wifi and then you're fucked. That's in business.

The other thing we got are these really cool, my friend Thomas, shout out, Thomas found, these little like point and shoot cameras. [00:54:00] So there's no, they're digital and to unload the pictures, you plug 'em into the iPad or computer or whatever, but there's no settings on them, which is really amazing. And there's no screen.

It's like an old school point and click. And they actually take like pretty good pictures. Like for them, they're like, this is fucking great. So they don't need to ask for your phone to take shit. And instantly we put a key ring with an air tag on them and then save the air tag to my shit, share with my wife.

'cause they need to keep track of their own stuff. But eventually I'm like, well now it's my problem.

Claire: Yeah. That's good advice. Someone gave me the advice to get disposable cameras for our trip to Colombia, which is harder to find than you would think. And then the kids don't know how to use them because they're 21st century kids.

And then my husband, you know, he's got a lot of great qualities, but he as a filmmaker, is well, they wanted to take pictures the way kids take pictures, which is whatever the fuck. And he was like, don't take that picture. That's like not a good picture. And you only have 24 shots.

Quinn: Gotta let go of that.

Claire: Yeah. And so they ended up [00:55:00] using each camera, I think were three pictures.

Quinn: So these hold like 500 each on a little SD card that you don't have to take out. 'cause again, you can unload with a cord through USBC. Fucking everything should be, that's the other thing. As much as you can change everything in your life to USBC, do it so that one core can do all the different shit.

The other two things. And sometimes I have to check if they're expired, like my emergency bags, is super helpful to have at all times. Little bottle of kids' Motrin and a little bottle of kids' Dramamin can go a long fucking way.

Claire: Motion sickness bands for everyone are huge. Our younger kid gets, and I feel this way too, like reading in the car makes me not feel well. And those motion sickness bands work, you know, they're not messy. Also, always pack at least one, if not more, just the plastic shopping bags for throwing up in, putting wet swimsuits in, putting dirty laundry in.

Doesn't matter, that's an easy lift. It's tiny.

Quinn: Yeah. Whenever we get somewhere, we turn one person's bag into the dirty laundry bin for the trip. That's where everything goes. [00:56:00] We don't have to find shit, you know, or go through it. I'm trying to think. I definitely have other stuff, but I'll put it in the notes. But that stuff is helpful. It's again, like I've learned over and over, pain in the ass and eventually you get it there and then everything blows up anyways.

But that stuff is really helpful. Empty water bottles to bring with you so you don't have to buy shit in the airport or wherever you're going that they can refill whenever. We use these little, to try to get your kids to actually drink water if they can. Again, some places you don't want them to fill it up.

We use these little tablets called Nuun tablets, N-U-U-N. I think there's 10 little tablets. They're just electrolytes. Don't get the caffeine ones and throw 'em in a backpack and it just makes the water more fun to drink, so they'll fucking drink it. Shit like that.

Claire: Tell me we've done this. We actually did this, where the hell were we, Kentucky, Ohio. We were in some state and we had to get an emergency refill of our kids' ADHD medicine sent to some Walgreens in the middle of nowhere. You went through that in England, so what was that like, not having, right, you [00:57:00] forgot to pack your kids' meds?

Quinn: Not great. Yes. And in addition to that, it turns out in England they are fucking so much more strict about decongestent. You basically can't buy it. So one of our kids had a horrific cold, and they were like, here's a netty pot, best of luck. And you're like, this is, how is that fucking possible?

Gimme some Dimetap. So that was a huge pain in the ass. Bring that if you can in some way, even just to like a small amount. We were very lucky that the day after we went, a friend was flying over from the US, no, two days after, was flying over to meet us, like a fake aunt situation, who's coming to see a friend anyways, so realized we forgot it, probably texted you first and then immediately had a neighbor grab it, FedEx it overnight to her in Atlanta.

And then she brought it with her. So we went through, which again is not the scenario. It's not gonna work when I'm in fucking Alaska. So, you know, I try to keep the same packing list in my reminders app [00:58:00] so I don't forget shit.

You know, it's the redundancies that I find really helpful.

Claire: Yeah, no, for sure. It's funny 'cause like now the kids are a little bit older. They're more in charge of their stuff, more the older kid. But yeah, he was in charge of packing his own stuff. And I did text you this where he has more socks than this, but I was like, please double check Paul's work.

And I'm glad he did because he packed three socks total for a six night trip.

Quinn: Now, three pairs, right?

Claire: Correct. Right. I mean, they do have socks in Mexico. I don't know the word for socks yet. They haven't given me that in Duolingo.

Quinn: Mm-hmm.

Claire: I can say abrigo, you know, but I don't know sock yet, anyway, I just, I have one more quick question before we run into some of these quick tips I got from other Witches.

But how often have you traveled with the kids solo, either on a plane or just a car trip without Dana?

Quinn: I have done it historically over the past, you know, 12 and a half years, quite a bit without her for various reasons. She is working [00:59:00] somewhere and I am bringing them home or going somewhere, or like at the end of this Colorado trip we just did. She had to go to LA at the end and we came home.

So I'll do that. We've done a lot of different versions of that. I drive down to the beach without 'em, whatever. I remember at one point we did a trip up to Mammoth with some friends when we were in LA and she had to go back to making her TV show. So I drove, whatever it was, like seven hours and they were, you know, five and four and three or some shit. It was pretty dark. A fair amount. And again and I'm sure she has the other version of this as well, also, I'm sure it's more fun. They tend to, not immediately, but at least eventually within the first day, if it's a multi-day thing, be a little less discombobulated at least.

'cause there's only one voice, which is interesting. I didn't account for that and I was like, oh, look at this power. They respect me. It's not, they just are resigned to the fact that mom isn't coming to rescue them. And I'll try to do little things. The good news about mostly being the bad cop is that when you're alone and you show flashes of good cop, it's [01:00:00] so exciting to them. You know, if I'm like, no, you can buy that pack of gum. They're like, holy fuck, this is incredible. It's like cocaine.

So I'll try to do little things like that. It doesn't mean it's not hard. But I don't know. I also take a little pride in it, but sometimes that's the way it goes. I mean, military parents have to do that shit all the fucking time.

Claire: Yeah, right. Yeah. Steve takes the kids camping because he, and he offers me the chance to stay home alone. And I take that happily because I just really need, I really can't fathom the idea of being around them that much all the time without a closed door, you know? And I tip my cap to him.

I don't know why he does it, you know, but happy for him, I guess. But I will do one kid at a time. We have a long weekend. This is the downside of Catholic schools, is that there's no school tomorrow for Easter and then also on Monday. So I have a bunch of Hilton points. So my younger kid, I'm taking a friend of his, we're gonna stay at the hotel in the suburb for cheap one night, and they're gonna swim in the pool and watch TV.

And, you know, it'll be a fun sleepover where it's not in our house. But yeah, I've never flown with them solo [01:01:00] so far. But you know, they're not total disasters. When we were coming back from Mexico City, like I said, we had this aborted landing, and I had just told our older kid, like on the flight in that this happens sometimes.

So that was this weird timing that he, you know, like he at least knew what was going on. And our younger kid is such a screen monster that at least in this case, it worked to his benefit. He didn't notice it at all. He had no idea that we were like inches from the runway and then back up over Lake Michigan moments later. Good for him.

Quinn: I, you know, the other thing we actually alternately try to do, or I have tried to do and I like to think and I think I'm somewhat justified in, in the past like probably five, six years I've really tried to actually do the opposite more, which is just send Dana away.

So instead of me traveling alone with them, which is complicated and I think she appreciates when it's necessary or out of want, more often, I'll be like, get the fuck out. Just get the fuck outta here. Part of being on the east coast now, she's got some friends in New York who've been there forever that we never just saw.

'cause our kids were so small and it was such a pain in the ass. I'm like, go the fuck up there. [01:02:00] You can take a plane up or take a train back. She doesn't mind the long train. It's great. It's still time by herself. I try to grant her that because there is nothing quite like fucking traveling by yourself.

And you're like, I'm gonna get there when I get there. I'm gonna buy whatever snacks I want and then I'm gonna sit and poop for 40 fucking minutes before this plane takes off. 'cause I'm not worried this dumb ass is like licking the bathroom floor.

Claire: Did you, I don't know if we were talking last year this time, but I went on a family vacation with just my immediate family without my kids to a family wedding in California. And I got pink eye, which was like disgusting. It was so gross. But I ended up being in my hotel room by myself for two nights or three nights.

And on the one hand, boohoo on the other hand, Quinn, I gotta say there are worse ways to spend a weekend.

Quinn: Give me the pink eye.

Claire: Weeping milk out of your eye, watching tv, like being beholden to only yourself, you know? Yeah.

Quinn: No, it's the dream. It's a dream. As long as it's not like a norovirus [01:03:00] I'm game.

Claire: Yeah, exactly.

Quinn: Yeah, no I really do try to support that and she really tries to support me doing it. My version is usually less farfetched, literally and philosophically and more I literally will just go into the woods with a friend and we'll take gummies and watch Hunt For Red October for 48 hours straight and eat lasagna. And that's good enough for me. That recharges me.

Claire: Steve is going to Aruba for a work trip in like in two weeks. And he's tacking on a few days to, you know, tour around and stuff. And he keeps offering to come back early. I'm like, no, do do it. I want you to have fun. I also secretly and you know, making a note, my tiny notebook I'll get mine, don't worry.

Quinn: Is it Billy Madison or Happy Gilmore, where Steve Buscemi puts on the lipstick and he is got the people to kill list behind him?

Claire: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But you know, I'm happy for him 'cause we, I mean, we talked about this before. I used to, he used to never wanna go do his own fun stuff, which like made me mad because I wanted to for myself and also you need to go away.

Like you need to go have your own adventures come back, you know, come back refreshed, like, we need to miss you. [01:04:00] You know? And so I'm glad he's kind of given in, you know, and allowed himself to experience those things.

Quinn: It matters. I mean, when we got married, we went on our honeymoon, and I remember this woman, like friend of a friend of the family, you know, was like this 70-year-old French woman and grown kids. And her first thing, you know, we're in like day one of our honeymoon and she's like, you guys gotta get away.

Just the two of you. You gotta stick to that. And then we didn't do it for 10 fucking years for a variety of reasons. And the first time I proposed to Dana to do it, not proposed to Dana, but the first time I was like, listen, we really need to get away. She literally said, fuck you, get out of this room, and I was like, well that just shows me we need to do this more. And that was years ago. And we've gotten better. But it doesn't mean it's not necessary, also doesn't mean it's, you know, it's hard logistically, obviously, but that matters too.

Claire: We went out for my birthday on Tuesday night and there is a moment at the beginning of the night where I'm like, oh what the fuck are we gonna talk about for three hours? Jesus Christ. And we filled the time which I was proud of, but, all right can I read [01:05:00] you some of these tips from Evil Witches?

Quinn: Fuck yeah, man. And just, and will you put the link in the show notes so people can find it?

Claire: Yeah. So someone wrote to me asking, how do you make a family trip fun? And this person wrote, said they have a 15 year old and an 8-year-old, and every time we go to the beach or something, it just feels like we're cramming ourselves into a smaller different space. Desperate to know what other Witches do to make vacations work for their families.

Okay. So here's some advice I got from other people. Number one, don't expect to relax. Number two, have brutally low expectations, especially regarding the number of things you can do in a day. Number three, if your kids still naps, do whatever you can to respect the nap. Number four, a house or condo is a billion times better than a hotel room if possible.

What else? We usually don't try to do more than one thing a day and reserve the afternoons for quiet time, which used to be the kids napping, but now will be the kids on screens so the adults can go read in the nice outdoor space or sit in the hot tub.

Don't worry at all if the kids live on french fries or whatever the whole trip, they can eat [01:06:00] vegetables at home. One person said, once your kids are old enough to go to a kid's club at a resort. book it. We did this a few years ago and it feels like the only time it felt like a real vacation.

Quinn: All of them are lower your expectations, right? Do the things you need to do to make it easier on you.

It's pretty straightforward. But again, without something like Witches, which is such a wonderful community for this sort of thing, it's people who have been through the fucking grinder and are still going through the grinder and are like no, let me pass this on.

Which is the only way we've survived. But you don't, we talk about it all the time. One, you're doing great, and two, you don't have to do this alone. It's fucking impossible.

Claire: Oh, someone recommended Home Exchange. I'm not familiar with it, but it's a way to save money and establish routines during a vacation. And I've done that with a friend without a program just swapping houses, especially if they have kids the same age as you, kind of, you know, same kind of toys they'd be interested in.

And my last piece of advice is if you are a drinker, try not to drink too much after the kids go to bed. 'cause your kids are gonna be getting the fuck up at [01:07:00] five in the morning and they're not gonna respect your hangover or anything like that.

So try to just, you know, even though it's a vacation, like your body doesn't know that and your kids don't know that. So just you know, mind your hangovers 'cause that will make you a lot more miserable, I think in the mornings.

Quinn: It really does and truly the last thing is as far as like supporting a partner, if you have one, whether you hate each other at the moment or not. And again, you can make fun of this quote, and it's appropriate to, but you were saying like, split it up. Split up jobs. Like whatever you can do, is and we've tried to lean into this more.

There's this quote by a guy named Tom Peters that says the most selfish act of all is kindness because its reward is so much greater than the investment. And think about how you feel when your partner comes downstairs or upstairs or whatever after an hour and says the kids are down and you didn't fucking have to do anything.

How incredible that feels. Pay that forward sometimes. And like you said, you can scribble in your little notebook. I'm gonna get [01:08:00] mine.