Q&A: Questions We're Not Qualified to Answer (But We'll Try Anyway)

Quinn: [00:00:00] I remember a parent being like, it gets a lot easier.

And I'm like, great. Fuck you. Thank you. But that doesn't help right now.

Welcome to Not Right Now, the podcast about parenting through all of this.

Claire: We'll be talking about slash crashing out over topics like mental health and gummies and wine and perimenopause, and just giving up.

Quinn: Or not. Don't give up yet, until you get the pop-up notification about democracy when you are truly for once, just trying to be present with, I don't know, man, whatever your kid is trying to tell you that you don't understand or care about, or you're not allowed to say back to them. It doesn't matter. It's not an advice show.

Claire: It's a you're not alone and you're also not crazy for screaming in the shower kind of show. I'm Claire Zulkey from Evil Witches.

Quinn: And I'm Quinn Emmett from Important, not important.

Claire: You can find details on anything we talk about in the show notes or at our website not right now dot show.

Quinn: Dot show. And if you like what you hear [00:01:00] today, please share it with a parent who needs it or who might laugh and tell their kids to be quiet. And then drop us a nice little five star review.

Claire: And reminder you can send questions or feedback to questions at not right now dot show.

Quinn: Claire this is a special episode. Remember after school specials?

Claire: Yes.

Quinn: Anyways, we're old. So this is our first real special episode. It is a Q and A or mailbag or whatever we want to call it. Our wonderful listeners at our request to send in a bunch of great questions and feedback and things like that.

And what we're gonna do is our best to discuss them out loud on the fly. Because, Lord, what else is parenting right now than making it up on the go while the information keeps changing, getting it wrong a lot of the time, and offering advice that other parents try and it doesn't work for them 'cause every kid's different. So, are you ready to dive into this, Claire?

Claire: I'm excited and I'm [00:02:00] grateful to everyone who wrote in. And thank you for, you know, taking a chance on us and listening. I'm always like pleasantly surprised and delighted when someone says they enjoyed what we're doing.

Quinn: I know it's so thoughtful. It's amazing how many more people respond to you than to me with those sort of things. My friends are just like, great job fuckhead. Exciting news, in the future, we will record something like one Q and A episode a month, and maybe some other bonus content. It'll be available to two groups of people: Important Members and Evil Witches paid subscribers, is that what you call them? Super Witches? If you're already one of those, that's great.

You will get details on how to access your brand new private feed soon, which is really exciting, in whatever player you'd like. And if you're not already an Important Member or an Evil Witches paid subscriber, you can check the show notes for the links on how to do it. Very exciting stuff. Gotta pay the bills here. So, okay. Our first Q and A, again, this is not an advice show. We are not, I mean, professionals in any real medical [00:03:00] capacity or any really, any other, I don't have any like hard skills. So take it for what it is. Princess Bride, again, you know. It's a parenting show, but that word doesn't mean what you think it means. You know, it is what it is. So our first question I've got here, Claire, is about essentially someone's asking, I'm trying to make some friends here on the playground. Is this real friendship or is it other parents just commiserating?

Which by the way, is not a bad thing. But what I'm gonna do, Claire, is I'm gonna play it. It's one minute. Okay.

Guest Question: So I was thinking about this question yesterday while talking to my husband, and the question is. How can you tell if you're really connecting with someone or if you're just connecting over the, like, superficial and very real, all consuming challenges of parenting. We're working on establishing friendships as our kids are getting a little older, being three and six, no longer babies. And we're kind of like struggling to find the right match friendship wise for like people who are really aligned with us in a bunch of ways. But [00:04:00] it's hard to tell like, am I connecting with someone because we have a deep connection or am I just connecting with them because they are also parenting in a modern American hellscape?

Is this a case where I should just accept like good enough where if we connect about modern American parenting, that that's enough for a friendship? Is it enough for a friendship? These are the questions I have. I'd love to hear your thoughts on. Any wisdom or experience, you might have to share. Thank you. Love your podcast.

Claire: It is a good question.

Quinn: Right. It's good. Let me start here. We've established before that you are more social and a better person than I am. So you make new friends, right? At least you put yourself in a place to do that with school and volunteering and all that stuff. Off the cuff, what are your make or breaks for a new friend? You're going into this, what are you just like that's a no go.

Claire: If they don't have a sort of twisted or silly sense of humor, like if I can't say it [00:05:00] like, I hate my kid, or I wanna kill you, or shut up. Not to their face, but you know, like kind of behind their back and they don't laugh or indicate that they get it in some way. I mean, I hate to say it.

And of course I can be friends with people who are not like this, but if they are incredibly sincere and I feel like I can't be a little bit sarcastic and snarky, then I kind of slot them in a place where I'm like, we can be great you know, block friends, school friends, I respect you, I trust you, but I'm not necessarily gonna be giving you my deepest shit or giving you everything I got. So, yeah, I think that's my first inclination, which might sound superficial, but I just need to, I think being able to hold on to that like snarky sense of humor and offhanded and to be irreverent about it all, I think is really important to me.

Quinn: I always kind of, and this doesn't always present itself quite as organically or nearly as organically as that or the situation this listener's describing. But I always love the rule of I mean, there's a few of 'em, and they're kind of cliche, [00:06:00] but I like them. And the first one is basically like, how do they treat servers essentially?

You know, if we're out and it's 40 fucking kids out to lunch, remember you sent the picture of yourself at McDonald's, like sitting at another table. If that parent's a dick to the people there, I'm not even gonna bother. I mean, forget anti-vaxxer and all that other crazy shit. Are they carrying a firearm? Forget all that. That's just like, you're not a good person. I'm out.

Claire: Yeah I would agree. If someone complains about the school secretary, like having a bad attitude I mean, I already would be sorting that person out, I guess, to begin with. That's more of a, you lack a certain kind of empathy or big picture situation.

Quinn: Totally, but it's all of like, here's what it comes down to. Is it someone you, want to either by invitation or proactively actually spend more time with? Because here's the thing, like when she said that addendum about should I settle for this essentially, I think of the argument for why Pluto is technically not a planet anymore. And I remember one [00:07:00] scientist saying what we need to do is like back up and redefine planets, but clearly like Earth and fucking Jupiter and Pluto are not the same thing. These are all very different things.

And I think friendship is like, what is it? It's not the same as it was in high school. My buddy has the quote from oh God, what's the movie where the kids find the dead body from when we were grown up? Fuck.

Claire: Stand By Me.

Quinn: Stand By Me, where it's I've never had friends like I had when I was 12 years old. Does anybody? It's totally different, but I think what do you need? How are you defining it? And no one else gets to define it for you.

Claire: Yeah. Well it's interesting 'cause I just, I've just kind of put my finger on this that I've been grieving and feeling a little bit uncomfortable about something and I couldn't quite figure it out. And I realized that I have moved through life stages since my kids were born, which sounds maybe strange, but I feel like it was so cute, the first 10 years of my kids' life that it was like we were in new parenting together and now I have moved through, like we've gone through different schools or the kids are [00:08:00] into different things. I'm into different things of different concerns, and it just feels strange. Yeah, it's just life.

It's a little bit scary and sad. I think what I really crave and need, especially when the kids were younger, I could tell that if someone became a parent and they did not wanna acknowledge their identity outside or pre parenthood and that they indicated that they were all in and nothing else.

I mean, I know every emotion is normal, but if someone couldn't understand why I'd be excited to go away by myself for a weekend, even if they didn't feel exactly the same way. If they couldn't get that, you know, or if they couldn't understand why, I would feel sad that I wasn't getting work satisfaction during maternity leave, you know, if they were like, but you've got everything now. You know, like I think that's a real fundamental thing for me is that even if another mom like is loving parenthood so much, if she can't even see that aspect of yourself and that struggle and that juggle of the pre kid you or the you that [00:09:00] doesn't exist without kids. I think that's a non-starter for me. But yeah. I'll start with that, but I have other thoughts, but go ahead.

Quinn: It's interesting 'cause, and again, so much of this starter relationship you might be having or not having or they might not seem up to it either, which totally get it. Right, if they're just like, Hey, clearly I'm exhausted. Don't approach. Keep hands and feet inside the vehicle. Like it sounds like what you're saying is they need to have at least some sort of like ingrained empathy, even if they're not in the same situation as you or same stage of parenting, or they don't even have kids or they're a teacher and their kids are grown up and they get it. I mean, we were flying once again, our kids were 3 under 3 at one point.

We used to go back and forth, Virginia to California. And we had the whole thing, kids screaming on the airplane, this and that. And I remember, so cliche, some parent was like, I don't even if iPads even existed at this point, but I remember a parent being like, it gets a lot easier.

And I'm like, great. Fuck you. Thank you. But that doesn't help right now. And I saw some, you know, parents in the airport recently, three tiny fucking kids. And they're going through hell to go take their kids to some [00:10:00] grandparent or something. And I did the thing and I was like, look at my morons.

They don't even talk to me anymore. It does get easier, but I tried to do it from a place of empathy, it gets easier but I acknowledge what you're going through as gnarly and I hope if you're not a disconnected parent that you can at least have that. It does make me think though, a little bit about, you know, Derek Thompson wrote a really good article in The Atlantic.

He spent like a year on about the loneliness epidemic, which is hitting not just old people who are living in these McMansions by themselves or not just in the UK and Brexit, like everybody. And I think it really comes down to this, you know, ignore phones and kids don't hang out and all this like it's what do you need and do you know which you need yet?

And right now, and then it comes down to okay then can I fit that in somewhere if someone asked me to come hang out or I wanna have him over.

Claire: Yeah. I mean, I remember we talked about this in the episode about like drinking and stuff that when your kids are really little, it is like army buddies basically, when you're in the trenches with someone and like really you can [00:11:00] base a friendship, around if your kids are the same age, if you like the same kind of wine, if one of you has a place to hang out and you can tolerate being together for a couple hours, like for a couple years of your life, like that might be all you need for a friendship.

Quinn: Yeah, the bar's pretty low.

Claire: I mean, the thing is that, the thing that's tricky is that whether or not you have kids, like life is gonna be like that anyway. You like, you may have some work friend and you're like this person is like my bestie forever. Like they get me and then they move or they get promoted or, you know, whatever.

And then you don't talk and you fall apart. I have friends, like whose kids were, we were so close and then, you know, the kid might be in a different homeroom or something like that. Or, you know, COVID was a real shaker. So it's really hard to know ahead of time but I would say frankly, if you can communicate, I'm talking to moms, I dads are another beast, but if you can at least send a couple funny text messages to each other, that can be silly and make you smile that aren't necessarily about, [00:12:00] you know, what time is drop off or whatever.

Quinn: Don't have to go as far as the messages you and I send each other, but

Claire: Right. I know. If you can make a joke honestly, I think one of my touch points with other Witches, if someone says, I'm gonna murder my husband, the other person says, I'll be there with a tarp, no questions asked. That's kind of like you know, a shorthand for I'm there for you. I see you, you know.

Quinn: It’s what’s his face from The Town, right. Jeremy Renner saying, who's car are we gonna take?

That's it. And I think I'm at the age I'm very turning into Clint Eastwood, like shaking my rake in the yard. Like when you ask should I just settle for this again, like one, figure out what you need if you don't already know it.

And don't be afraid to be like, I need the world's most like bassist existence among two people or more. But at the same time don't let anyone else define it for you. Like whatever the settling is, it's like mine is totally different. I like to say I didn't have FOMO for a long time. I really didn't, I think compared to most people, but you still have a little social anxiety of being left out or this or that, and [00:13:00] part of that was being out in Hollywood, but when I finally embraced that's just not me, man. I'm not comfortable with it, not only does it like not fucking spark joy, but it is not comfortable. Then figure out there's always gonna be somebody out there who is happy to just, like you said, sit on the couch and drink two buck chuck.

Claire: Two buck chuck would be great. That would be a good lesbian bar. I think one of the things that made me kind of realize what witches was, was that earlier on when I was a parent, I was very attuned and ready to feel defensive of moms who were making choices different for me that I presumed would be like more judgy, more crunchy, like who were like all in on breastfeeding, which I wasn't, for instance, or all in on natural birth or really into co-sleeping.

And I, for a while was like, well, if you make these choices, that must mean that you like, judge me as a parent. And then after enough time on the planet I realized there's like people who make parenting choices that are different from me, but we can honestly laugh about the same things [00:14:00] or commiserate over the same things.

You know, like you may be homeschooling your kids and I'm not. But also if we can laugh over just like how stupid our kids can be, honestly, or just like how burnt out we feel, or how badly we need to like, you know, unwind at 6:00 PM or don't wanna see them. Finding that little touchstone, even despite the differences that you may think may fundamentally make you different.

So that was helpful for me was to realize there's people who make different choices for me, but they're still so human that I shouldn't judge them basically thinking they're gonna judge me, you know?

Quinn: Yeah, and this thing does grind you down so fucking much. That you do at some point have to look up and realize oh, I'm a husk. And the good news is I only have to fulfill those husk things for myself and someone else, whether it's your partner who can't fulfill all the things, or a friend who, the same thing, you're gonna have different kinds of friends. What kind of music they're into? Do they like art, nobody fucking cares. Right. It doesn't fucking matter. It's the bassist shit.

Claire: And I would say one last [00:15:00] thing is like a good thing about parenting is that it really trips away your dignity to a place where, I mean, I have a couple mom friends who I just was like, I like your style. Like you seem cool. I like the way you seem. And often that's reciprocated.

And if not. I am sure it already hasn't been and I've forgotten about it already. You know, because that also makes me feel better knowing that every other parent, no matter how perfect they seem, gets shit under their fingernails, either literally or metaphorically, you know?

So you know, I think getting offline to a certain stat and not comparing yourself to other folks like that also makes a big difference. So I guess like my answer, I don't know if we gave this listener any good advice, but.

Quinn: I tried to set it up as they're not gonna get any.

Claire: I know, but it's a hard question. And again, like I think you have to be sort of open to the fact that some friendships are like gonna be about the season. You know, like this might be your bestie for the summer and then when they go back to school, you might just be like a see you sometime, you know, person.

But yeah, I think that a lot of it again [00:16:00] is if you feel like you could have been friends with them before kids or around kids, or you see each other in the same kind of struggle. Then, you know, then that's a good starting off place for sure.

Quinn: I also think there's a lot of room in what we're missing a lot of and we've talked about a little bit with, you know, church going down and people not hanging out except online and things like that is there's a lot of room for that middle ground of, like you said, people you only see in certain activities, certain seasons, certain school years, whatever it might be, who aren't necessarily someone you might accept an invitation for during your precious time or proactively use, but that you're friendly with.

And that is really the scaffolding of community that can go a long way to helping people at least feel not alone. It can be something, an activity to actually look forward to. Right.

Claire: Yeah. Well, and then I think one other idea, and this is sort of how Witches started, was that a friend of mine was like, I wanna meet cool moms, you know, and that made me personally wanna be like, okay, here are all like a bunch of cool women I know who all kind of have a same sense of humor or personality about [00:17:00] parenting.

And they have totally disparate, by and large, you know, they don't live in the same universes, but they would get a kick out of knowing each other. So I think almost like you have a job. If you know a parent who you like, or person you like, and you're like, Hey, do you know any moms who like have kids my age who I might like and they wouldn't think it's weird if we like met up at the playground, you know, go out, ask for a referral, basically. And yeah, again, it can be really hard. It can feel so random, like when you're at the library and you're like, I have no idea what this person's about. I don't know if they, you know, feel the way I feel.

Quinn: Yeah. No, I get it. They're probably a murderer, but guess what? Like some of your real friends are too.

Claire: Yeah, honestly, yes. It's a very vulnerable stage of life, that's for sure. But I mean, the person who called, just the fact that they put that question out there as a thought provoking question and just asking people about themselves like, is like half the battle. So they'll get there, there certainly will be some chaff, you know, along with the wheat, but you know, [00:18:00] that's part of it.

Quinn: Yeah, no. Let me finish by saying if you, listeners, have any good stories or tips or ideas or anecdotes about how you've either successfully or unsuccessfully met or have hung out with other parents or other people during, like you said this very vulnerable stage where you got nothing, right?

There's no, the emperor really has no clothes. Please just send 'em in again. Voice notes are fun. We're figuring out how that fucking works. But it helps. I mean, that's the great thing about Witches, man. It's in print, but it matters.

Claire: Well, thank you. But yeah, please call in if you have struggles, if you found solutions, if you've heard of smart things, if you've had realizations yeah please share it. 'cause it all also depends on where you live as well. So we're lucky that we live at a place where like my husband can meet 20 other guys like him who have beards and glasses and electric cars and you know, are into the same things and they can meet up at the cool craft bar, but that's a different story if you live somewhere else.

Quinn: [00:19:00] Okay. Number two, and it looks like we're probably only gonna get to two this week, which is great. We can save 'em and do 'em when we can here. Okay, I'm gonna read this one. It came in via email. It says, I have a daughter who is eight, who was recently diagnosed with ADHD and anxiety. The whole process of getting through an evaluation, meeting with the school, finding a therapist, finding a psychiatrist, the trial and error with different medications, et cetera, has been so disruptive to a kid who is already having such a hard time. Man do I feel that. To top it off, so much of the advice and treatment for kids with ADHD is geared towards kids that are disruptive and high energy, not kids that are spacey and distracted. We haven't found a medication that works. Therapy feels like jamming another obligation into her week, and she doesn't qualify for any services at school due to not being behind academically.

So how do we help this kid? Everything that's supposed to help feels like it's creating more anxiety and I just first wanna lead with again, like we've both got kids who I don't [00:20:00] wanna say suffer from this, even though that's a, you know, a subjective word we can put onto it. But who have been diagnosed with this and deal with it and the family deals with it. But we are not a physician, psychiatrist, psychologist, any of the above. But at the same time, it is very much versions of a similar, everyday experience. And we were both definitely in a spot like this at one point. Mine was early in the pandemic actually. And that made it easier and harder.

They weren't in a classroom as much. But holy shit, was it impossible trying to get them to focus on a fucking computer screen for 10 seconds. We did the whole evaluation remotely. I mean, it was early in the pandemic. A gentleman who was very helpful and we found some things that helped us.

We really tried to and again, just sharing my experience here, really tried to find the most common sense, but also like reputable science driven psychology as much as that can be reputable and pros and cons there. Driven versions [00:21:00] of, what is actually gonna be helpful to most children that also applies to my specific child and our family situation? What are we willing to try to do? And for us, that was a combination of day-to-day expectations and modifications, but also some medicine. And we've changed medicine once but it was actually just because as any ADHD parent knows this, it was fucking impossible to find the first one for two years.

I was calling 10 pharmacies a month. It's complicated. It's really hard. I have a whole bunch of books I can recommend that I can put in the show notes just to help ground folks in this kind of stuff, including some books for the kids to make them feel not as alone. That's actually where we really realized, oh, they have helped themselves as much as they can and we've actually done as much as we can, is when they became much more self-aware about it and started to get really down about their ability to, much more spacey, distracted, not able to pay attention. It's all fun [00:22:00] and games until they start to get really down, and then that's when it hurts everybody. So that was really our experience. Do you want to start with yours again? I wanna start with commiseration here.

Claire: Yeah, well, I mean, the thing that really sucks is that they're kids and sometimes it can be really hard to discern what is quote unquote normal kid behavior. You know, emotions, lots of ups and downs, feeling good, feeling bad, versus what is a diagnosable kind of thing. And then, you know, if you get online, the internet can be amazing.

Except when it can be the worst thing ever and you find people who are diagnosing your kid who don't know what your reality is. You know, people whose kids like their diagnosis might be kind of like yours, but then with comorbidities and, yeah, and the medication thing is incredibly difficult, you don't know how long you wait to see if it's actually working.

There's so many phases and you know, just even if it's winter time, for instance, like our kid was having a difficult winter and we were talking with his therapist about does he need his medication changed [00:23:00] or is it just dark and cold and he doesn't have enough to do, and I really hate the whole medication.

I mean, I'm glad for the medication, we needed it so bad, but we also went through a phase of him not being on the right meds. And again, it took us a long time to be like, is he like this all the time or is it the wrong meds? So I think being in touch with your pediatrician a lot is really good. If you have time yourself to be in touch with a psychologist a pediatric psychologist who specializes in kid meds, they may know more than your pediatrician. I will say, caller you may probably like not wanna hear like advice on more media, but if you haven't watched The Disruptors, it's a documentary that a friend recommended. It's on YouTube, about kids with ADHD, and it touches on how it presents differently in girls than in boys. In terms of I think you mentioned like kind of being withdrawn or having relationship issues compared to being hyperactive. It's very validating to see other parents dealing with this and it's not gonna make you feel ashamed. Don't [00:24:00] worry. It's not gonna be about what a guilt trip like you should be on.

But I found that really helpful. I think one thing that really helped us that maybe won't disrupt your kids' life per se, is family therapy. Because if you have a partner or spouse. I think it's really huge to get on the same page about how to react to your kid and how to have a game plan for when times are tough and stressed out.

And you can have a shared strategy and one of you isn't arguing, let her take a break versus no, pick her up and put her in the car. You know, or when it's time to expect a lot from your kid versus give them a break, you know?

Quinn: Can we hold on that for one second. Sorry. That shouldn't be unexpected to anyone who's listening and that's by the way, for anything your kids are going through because at least for us, you know, it feels very primal. And hopefully you can take a step back and realize it's okay to want to feel like no, there's nothing like wrong with my kid. And by the way, there's nothing fucking [00:25:00] wrong with your kid. It's just we've all got a thousand different things. Like it's fucking complicated, right? But it's very easy for parents, like you said, one to be like, well, I think we should just go without medicine for this, or, I think we should just do this.

Or they just need to run around more before bed. No, running 'em around before bed wakes 'em up. It's hard, but a lot of it comes from like one again, information is a threat. And two, again, you just wanna feel something. So again, a unified, less, a unified front and more unified experience like family therapy can be awesome.

Claire: I feel for this caller, 'cause you go through these phases, frankly, even when you have, I feel like we're in a pretty good place right now as we're talking with our m with ADHD. But like I said, just like over the winter we were struggling a lot and you know, things may be better at school, but then worse at home, you know, or they're fine with their homework, but then they suck at staying asleep.

And I think that a good thing again about a family therapist, if not for the kid for you, is to be like, okay, we have someone to [00:26:00] talk about this with. And that just brings a sense of relief so you're not Googling, you know, in the middle of the night.

I will say, for your own sake, I feel like nighttime is the worst time in terms of just having the strongest reactions of being the most sad and wondering what the hell you're gonna do. If you can find parents who have a kid who slightly resembles your kid, if not exactly the same diagnosis, but maybe the way they behave or the same things.

If you can just talk to them and just have a chat about what's helped them. You know, just ask them the questions, if you can find a safe space that just really helps that someone will understand and not judge you for saying you know, I'm tired of doing all this work and I feel bad for her, but we gotta do it.

Or you know, like I just, it just is really important to get at least resources. 'cause there are so many resources and some of them are just really not for you. Like I remember I got some book called What Your A HD Kid Wishes You Knew. And it felt like the world's biggest guilt trip.

I feel like it was like I wish you would stop being so mad at me, mommy. [00:27:00] You know? And maybe that's true, but that's not like helping.

Quinn: It's not helpful, it's not practical, yeah. I mean, you know, there was a big, and we can put it in the show notes, I think it was a New York Times article recently about ADHD diagnoses and how kids are being diagnosed now and what it means and what we know scientifically, and are we diagnosing too much or medicine or this or that?

And the answer, like everything, I mean, we don't know how the fuck a thought works or depression or all these things. Every time we pull the string more and more on brains or guts or both, we find out, like we might not have figured out. One of my favorite quotes from one of my favorite neuroscientists is, what if the brain can't know itself?

Basically what if we're just not like capable of that? And that's, that'll send you on a spin. But there are relatively, again, for a lot of folks, not most folks, a lot of folks proven ways to help your kid and help each other. There's little reminders and again, like I'm sure the definition of how [00:28:00] ADHD in this sense, the spacey and distracted, or what they call executive control issues works or doesn't work or whatever, the current version is, you know, the grossly simplified, and again, not a scientist, not a doctor version is essentially like we all get distracted. Those kids might be a kid or an adult who doesn't get the signal to come back to what you were doing in time as the rest of us, essentially, so they stay distracted, right? I got a kid who might if we got 10 kids playing in the front yard, in the backyard, hide and seek or something, he'll go hide and not realize that no one has come and looked for him for an hour, right? Just time can mean nothing there.

They just don't get this signal. Again, that's grossly oversimplified and I'm sure it'll change by the time we fucking publish this. But, you know, try to just remember that. Empathy wise, Hey man we're all this way. Right? We just might have a slightly easier version. The other thing, and I looked back at the text of this note and I as a calendar person and plates in the air person, and I know you feel this way and talk about it, their[00:29:00] note here that therapy feels like jamming another obligation into her week. I mean, I fucking get it. You know, we have another kid who really struggles with some real, lot of anxiety and depression and shame and things like that and doing therapy pretty regularly was so helpful in such a logistical pain in the ass 'cause it was like 25 minutes away in this small town, it's impossible for something to be 25 minutes away here as opposed to Los Angeles. That's like a win. But I will say if you find the right person, and it can be totally different for everyone, whether it's a psychologist who is just, not just, but a lot of talk therapy or an actual psychiatrist who might just be the person who ends up prescribing the medicine. 'cause they're a medical doctor. Or some combination of them and or family therapy, whatever. It can be like, well it can be like exercise in the chemical sense, but it can be like, this is actually a thing that can improve the rest of the week. If that makes sense.

Yes in time and space and family logistics, it can make it more [00:30:00] difficult, but it actually can, especially over time, you might have less time, but it could improve that time, if that makes sense. It's like people trying to find time to workout during the day. Yes, it's hard, but if you give it enough few weeks, you might end up having more energy for the rest of the day. You might do better, you might sleep better, et cetera, et cetera.

Claire: And you might not need it forever as well. Like you may, you may realize that after a couple months you don't need to talk as often. I think it helps again, if you can find people either online or in real life who can commiserate with you, like it just helps to know that there's so many people out there who have their thing and they may not even reveal it. I was just talking the other day with a friend of mine who, they are a family that travels like very, they are big travelers and their kids have seen parts of the world that I can only dream of, and on the one hand you're like, wow, they must have it made.

They go to Disneyland all the time. But she also, her daughter has complete school avoidance and will refuse to go to school and absolutely refuse and doesn't give a shit. And the mom is certainly not pleased about this. But she also sees her [00:31:00] daughter as a whole and she's like when my kid is an adult, she's gonna be famous one day. I just know for her ability to make art and the way she thinks, but this is like not her stage of life and to me it is just very, I dunno what the word is, validating. Soothing, reassuring, to know that there's parents out there who have this whole holistic issue where your kid has this, you know, 'cause school is, you know, like even though we all love our kids going to school and like we want the best for them, you know, it is not made for kids. Especially in this day, you know? So it's no surprise that some kids and I don't mean to speculate, but I imagine if you have a daughter and there's so many well-behaved, you know, docile daughters in the world who do what they're supposed to do and listen and don't cause a hard time, that if your kid isn't doing that, you may be like, why is she the one who's not doing what she's supposed to do?

I mean, you know, I feel that way about a boy, but I feel like boys are kind of famous for not necessarily sitting still, but anyway, I just think that it just gives you, because the other thing I was gonna say is don't [00:32:00] feel like you're supposed to love this. Don't feel bad if you are exhausted or wondering what happened or you know, it's okay to wonder if you made a mistake sometimes being a parent, and I don't mean that your kid was a mistake, but just when you think back to your life before kids and you're like, damn, I remember when I used to sleep in and I had to do laundry once a week, you know? And I had very little responsibilities.

It's not your job to love this, you know, and to, you know, feel no resentment towards it. It's okay to just be exhausted, but the fact that you care, honestly, I know it doesn't make it easier in the moment, but like you're already on the right track.

Quinn: You are, and by the way, speaking of people whose job it is, we, and this just might be these specific people, but I really don't believe that categorically. We have been so lucky to get tremendous help from our school's guidance counselors. So the person said she doesn't qualify for any services at school due to not being behind academically. Anybody can go to the guidance counselor and those [00:33:00] people can often be exceptional. Especially at the eight years old, elementary, early middle school years. Like these people have seen every version of it. They've seen sibling stuff, they've seen parental stuff, they've seen kids stuff, eating stuff, all the things. And you know, we've had just hey, guidance counselor, you know, we'll go around our kid and, you know, they're old enough to know now, and just say, Hey, do you mind like inviting 'em to lunch once a week or every two weeks and making it a fun thing and then just hang out again. It's like dealing with the tiger. Just build trust and hang out for three weeks. I don't give a shit, you know? And by the way, if that's not something the school does or that you do, that's fine. I'm, you know, I'll give anybody money for anything to help kids and help the schools, but that kind of stuff's helpful 'cause it's just somebody who like, knows the language in a way.

Claire: Or gives the kids something to relax and be themselves over without having to do the bullshit of like everyday school socialization.

Quinn: It's a fucking break.

Claire: Yeah, and also that [00:34:00] sounds really crappy if your school isn't giving your kid any kind of consideration just 'cause they're getting A's or whatever.

Does that mean that therefore you're supposed to hope that they slip academically to get some attention or some special care? You know, I hope there's someone, maybe a paraprofessional, whether it's like a librarian or lunch lady or bus driver or the nurse or whatever, who can give the kid a little extra TLC for 15 minutes acouple times a week or something like that, just to be like, Hey, you doing okay? Like touch base, you know? I don't know.

Quinn: The other thing I will say, and again, knowing nothing of whether this parent who wrote in, whether they have a partner or they have grandparents who can help out or friends or what their home life is like, whether there's time or anything like this. Because again, assuming any of that is a fool's errand in the US these days you know, they're talking about so much is geared towards kids that are disruptive and high energy, not kids that are spacey and distracted. This is a gross generalization, but again you know, by way of my wife, we lived in Los Angeles for 15 years and worked with and knew some of the [00:35:00] greatest versions of artists alive, who are all spacey and distracted and let your kid fucking hang out and color and be distracted for a while. If you have the time and the ability to do things, it doesn't cost anything. And we all need to space out more frankly. And if that means going out in nature or whatever, and it's relatively safe, like great.

That just might be a little easier for 'em. That doesn't mean you can't do all these other things to deal with it. But if they're quiet and spacey and distracted in a room that you've kind of designed, it's like my share plate thing, like in a room that is just full of things where they can do that. Hey, man, that's great too. You know, it doesn't have to all be go, go, go all the time.

Claire: And it's also okay to choose your battles. Like I think everyone chooses battles sometimes. Like I have a friend whose daughter is very school-avoidant, different friend, and I think there's just some days they fight it and it sounds incredibly difficult. Once in a while they're just like, you know what? What the hell. Mental health day for you, mental health day for us all.

Quinn: My wife talks about it all the time. Her mom used to say, you [00:36:00] get one mental health today a semester, no questions asked.

Claire: Or just, or giving yourself a break, honestly, like taking yourself out to dinner if you have a partner or hiring a babysitter, just to check yourself out to, you know, because that's the thing is this is not a guilt trip. Because this is incredibly hard, but like it is harder to do this when you are super burnt out.

So if you can refresh yourself a little bit, it helps you out, you know? And that helps your kid out too. But yeah, hang on. Like it is not easy, especially, again, I hate to say it, if you go on the internet, like it can be so validating sometimes to hear, once in a while you'll hear a cry in the wilderness that you're like, yes, you are me, thank God.

And then other times you'll hear someone be like, did you try the whiteboard? Did you try this reward system? Did you try spanking them? Did you try giving them more tasks to do around the house? You know, or did you just try loving them more? I've had that once.

Quinn: Oh, that's great. That's awesome.

Claire: Did you just try talking at night so they could talk to you and be honest with themselves? 'cause I do that with my son and you're like, shut the fuck up.

So be mindful of your internet intake. [00:37:00] I'm just saying 'cause it can giveth and it can taketh away.

Quinn: I am gonna say something, which is gonna sound crazy on the surface, but I don't even, I do not know if this listener is a mother or father, any version in between any of those. There's a subreddit called dad it, D-A-D-D-I-T. It's got 1.8 million Daditors, including me, 309 are online right now. And just like evil witches, there's moms that bounce in there all the time. It is one of the most like, supportive places I've ever seen in my entire life. And there's 1.8 million people in there. There's someone in there who's dealing with very similar shit. Whatever your kid is dealing with, I don't wanna say whatever they're suffering with or whatever they got. We've all got stuff. Just, you know, like this. Don't be afraid to share it if there's nothing else. That's the only thing I can really offer.

Claire: Well the good news is that things will get better. The bad news is that things will get worse again. But with enough time you'll realize that you are on the right track. And again, you're helping this kid. It is like really throwing spaghetti at a wall. Getting a diagnosis is [00:38:00] huge. I think you are already past the worst of it, of being like, what the hell? What is this? You know? And I will say one thing and you know what? I'll put this in the show notes. Friend of mine, she has a template for a letter, and you can start this maybe in the summer if your kids go to summer camp, or it started in the school year.

Where she introduces the kid to the teacher and she does it in the kid's first person. She's hi, I am Claire. I'm really great at X, Y, Z I'm really still working on A, B, C, and some things that could really help me are 1, 2, 3. And I borrowed that template and my kid's teacher was like, this is amazing.

Can I share this with all the kids? I wish all the parents would turn this in. So like I said, things like, for instance, if you can help but try not to take away recess from my kid as a punishment. Like I understand sometimes you need to, but like he needs that physical exercise or I mention that sometimes his brain, he starts talking before he's finished speaking, so he will sound like he's stuttering and he just is like [00:39:00] thinking in real time as he's speaking.

So I'm like, give him a second to talk. But I said he also loves having jobs to do. So give him a job like cleaning the board or you know, being the line leader and he loves to sing so if you ever wanna have him be the DJ or something like that. So anyway I'll share that also with show notes. 'cause I think that starts off the year in a really good wa , and it's good for you to get in touch with your kids' strengths, you know, and articulate them and remember them. So yeah, let me find that and I'll share that with you.

Quinn: That's great. I love that. I love that. All right, well, I know you gotta get outta here. This was very fun. Again, please don't take, there's no legal, medical, any really advice involved here, but we appreciate everyone reaching out. Again, if you have anything to offer from any of these things, write in, follow up, any of that. Please send them in questions at, not right now dot show. And that's it. We'll be back with a real episode next time.

Claire: Yes. Thank you for listening. Thanks for calling and keep it coming. We wanna hear from you. This is a conversation. Thank you for the challenging questions. Wishing you the best[00:40:00]

Quinn: Go get 'em. You're doing great.