That's $15 Dollars Worth of Raspberries

Quinn: [00:00:00] Do you remember when your kids would put their hands in your water and you would just feel this sense of dying inside? 'cause you're like, you couldn't pay me any amount of money to drink that water now?

Welcome to Not Right Now, the podcast about parenting through all of this.

Claire: We'll be talking about slash crashing out over topics like

Quinn: Lost Chromebook chargers and lost democracy.

Claire: Crying over spilled milk, and also, are we drinking dairy anymore?

Quinn: It's not an advice show.

Claire: It's a you're not alone and you're also not crazy for screaming in the shower kind of show.

I'm Claire Zulkey from Evil Witches.

Quinn: And I'm Quinn Emmett from Important, Not Important.

Claire: You can find details on anything we talk about in the show notes or at our website, not right now dot show,

Quinn: Dot show. And if you like what you hear today, please share it with a parent who needs it or who might laugh and tell their kids to be quiet.

And then drop us a nice little five star review.

Claire: And reminder, you can send [00:01:00] questions or feedback to questions at not right now dot show.

This week we're excited to have a guest 'cause it should not just be Quinn and me talking into the void. And one of the friends I've made via Substack is Lindsay Stanbury, who is a freelance writer, editor, content strategist, and founder of The Purse, which is a site dedicated to women and personal finance and we have spent some fun time between the two of us on our newsletters talking about kids and money in the 21st century, and we wanted to talk a little bit more about what it's like to raise kids in a not right now world and money issues.

Quinn: Yeah. What do you do when your kid's like, I would like you to make a meme coin of me, for me, by me, that's possibly illegal. As far as I understand, that's what money is now.

Claire: And even though Lindsay was an executive editor at Fortune and she served as [00:02:00] co-chair Fortune's Impact Initiative and Most Powerful Women Next Gen conferences, and she has been all over CNBC and Refinery 29 and Money Diaries, she just like you, hates Christmas and hates birthday parties. And doesn't know what to do with it, which is kind of reassuring to us.

Quinn: It really is again, like our goal with guests is really try to talk to 'em as parents first and bring their fullest selves to them. And I love the last line of her bio where she says she lives in Brooklyn with her frugal husband and expensive kid. And I'm like, there's a lot going on there that we dig into with her and it's really great.

She's so candid about the whole thing and about her work and the struggle to, when everybody's, much less if you have a family or in-laws, whatever it might be, their money stuff is complicated and this and that, and everything's expensive and she's just a wonderful person to have on the show. I'm sure she regrets it.

Claire: But paradoxically, if you do not have your shit together with your kids' finances or you have not figured out a chore chart [00:03:00] or an allowance that makes sense to you, don't worry. 'cause Lindsay does not have advice for you, which I think might be reassuring. So, dig into it. We hope you like it.

Quinn: Yep. Absolutely. If you have ideas for any other guests, we should have, we’ll try to do this semi often again, people who you think can give it to us real, but actually have an informed opinion, even if that opinion is I don't fucking know, man. So please enjoy our first guest Lindsay Stanbury.

Claire: So Lindsay, tomorrow is our kids' birthday and I know you don't have one coming up now for about a season, but like I would love to dive in with knowing about how, especially 'cause you have an only, like how you, from the perspective of The Purse, what's your present philosophy for birthdays?

Lindsey Stanberry: God. I hate presents. I hate presents. I'm not a good gift giver. And my kid, he's an only child and my husband's an only child, so he is also an only grandchild on one side. And so he is so spoiled.

Quinn: And what's your background?

Do you have siblings, et cetera, et cetera.

Lindsey Stanberry: Yes. [00:04:00] I have a brother and he has one kid.

Quinn: Okay.

Lindsey Stanberry: And just had, it's a new one kid, and my parents, my parents spend a lot of time with my kid. So, yeah, he's just, he's spoiled. He doesn't need anything else. We have a hard time when birthdays come around because grandparents buy at all seasons, so what do you get when you already have everything?

And then we throw this outrageous birthday party every year. We started during the pandemic where we do a block party. We shut down the street and invite the whole class and it's nice 'cause we make parents come and hang out and it's a good party, but then everybody brings gifts. So on top of the grandparent onslaught, there are all the gifts. But I negotiated last year and got my kid to agree to put no gifts on the invite, knowing that some people would still bring gifts. And then I agreed to buy him something that he really wanted within a certain price [00:05:00] range in order to cut down just the amount of stuff that came into our house. And that actually worked out pretty well.

Quinn: We did the no gifts thing when my oldest was, I don't know, two or three, something like that. And you know, we were like, look, if you gotta bring something, bring like a piece of plastic outta your recycling bin, that's all he gives a shit about. And one of my wife's good friends, our good friends, she basically wrote a card to my child that said your parents can go fuck themselves. Here's a bunch of Star Wars toys, which I should have expected. So I get it. The stuff is so hard. It's so much.

Lindsey Stanberry: So hard, and I think that the mental load of then trying to fit it into your house is a nightmare.

Claire: I mean it's funny 'cause I think Emily Gould did a thing a couple months ago about whether or not to say no gifts. And I feel no apologies about saying no gifts and not even, not remotely, like part of it is that we are a thank you note family. 'cause I sort of have this like Catholic background that's no gain, no pain.

Basically if you want Christmas presents, [00:06:00] you have to go to mass and if you want an Easter basket, you have to go to mass. And if you're gonna get birthday presents, you have to write a thank you note. And so he gets all the presents. My parents buy him every single thing he wants from his wishlist, which I think is insane. Shout out to my husband for coaching my 76-year-old dad on how to buy Roblox online.

Quinn: Fuck.

Claire: Robucks online. I know like a normal person would've just said, I'm not doing this. But my dad is such a slave to my son, my unworthy son. And then my brother and his husband get him whatever. My aunt gives him a big Amazon gift card. There's just literally nothing he could ever want. So, and part of it is that I just don't wanna make him sit down and write more thank you notes, so therefore his friends don't need to buy him anything.

I'm sure there'll be a few you know, rebels and renegades who sneak by and, you know, don't obey the rules.

Quinn: [00:07:00] Our caveat is always if you're gonna do it, just please bring a book. We try to go to that and then we actually, we're usually, pretty liberal about books. Like our house is filled with 'em, but we also we go to library every week to know like, you can't fucking buy everything.

But also every six months we move the books down to the youngest kid and then they're outta here. So, but I don't know, that makes me feel less bad than just more stuff.

Lindsey Stanberry: I try to give them too, if I have to do a gift.

Quinn: Yeah.

Claire: It gets harder as the kids get older and you don't know what they like or what they already have. You know, like for us, we get every, oh my God, what is it called? Wimpy Kid book. Like the second it comes out. And our kids are so spoiled. They're like the kids in Devil Wears Prada, where I just buy two copies because I'm like, well, I'm supporting the local bookstore.

I am mean in other ways, I promise you. But you know, you do find your days where you're like, these fucking books, if I just let my kids have a phone, I would be picking up books like, you know, face down on the kitchen counter, so much less frequently than I currently am.

But we had, Lindsay, I would love to know your take on how you would've [00:08:00] solved this problem. We went a couple months ago to a fundraiser for a children's choir that my kid was in, and P.S. We've quit the choir because it involves so much fundraising and volunteering that I was like, this is not worth it for me.

I would rather just pay more money and pay for people who can't afford to do it than to do additional fundraising and volunteer work. Anyway, they had this fundraiser and well, I guess, you know, it was jokes on us for not paying attention to it, but they had a silent auction.

It was during the day and my kids were running around. My older son spent his own money on like a gift card for I think Dick's Sporting Goods. My younger kid didn't really know how silent auctions worked. And long story short, he put the winning bid on a signed Chicago Cubs photo.

And it was for $80. We didn't find out until after the fact. When turned out he'd won the auction. First of all, we're not Chicago Cubs fans.

Quinn: Perfect.

Claire: I don't even know who this player is. He thought he had $80 back in his little, you know, toy robot bank [00:09:00] at home. He did not. He had about $20.

Quinn: So is a tax man coming to get some of his shit?

Claire: Yeah, tell me, what would you do if you found out your child had inadvertently put himself slash you in the hole, $80?

Lindsey Stanberry: I really like the idea of repoing.

Quinn: Right. No. It's we're big fans of fuck around and find out around here. It's sorry kids, real world's not fun.

Lindsey Stanberry: Oh man. I probably like put together like a payment plan, right? You're paying this off over time.

Quinn: But you wouldn't make him effectively return it or cancel it.

Lindsey Stanberry: Can you return it?

Claire: I mean, it's for charity and it's for this group that he is already a part of. Yeah, there's no returning.

You know, whoever acquired that photo put in probably more time and effort than was worth it, you know?

Quinn: Totally. Payment plan. Smart. And would you stick 'em for every dollar?

Lindsey Stanberry: No, I'd probably do 50/50. Because 80 bucks is a lot. But you also have to consider like how much cash is coming in. My mother-in-law, like stashes money aside for my son, [00:10:00] and then we'll just like, we'll be visiting. She'll be like here's $20. You already gave him x, y, z toys on this visit. Okay, give him more money.

So he’s not cash poor. So I might be like, dude, cough it up.

Claire: I absolutely, oh my God, what is the word? Not constipated, confiscated, my son has like extra little relatives who will put in $2 and an Easter card for him for no reason. Again, why? And I would just take that. I was like, that's mine now. Not for you.

Quinn: Well, that's because Easter has, apparently it's fucking Christmas spring now. My daughter definitely handed Dana a list and was like, here's the things I want for Easter. And we were like, quick question. Like who told you this is, first of all, it's just blanket no, like it's not happening.

But second of all, like where I don't understand, like what happened?

Lindsey Stanberry: I really messed up Easter this year. I think I like self-sabotaged. I think there was like a piece of me that was like, I'm just not doing it. We were on vacation and then we came back and it was the next day and my mom, God bless her, went and bought all the candy, [00:11:00] but I wasn't really paying attention to the fact that it was all it all had price tags on it, so I just threw it in the Easter basket.

And then a few weeks later, my son was like, so I don't really believe in the Easter Bunny anymore because all that candy had price tags from Cape Cod.

Quinn: Yeah, I feel like we're keeping things going for us more than anything. But at the same time, I mean, my youngest, he is nine. They wanna believe in that kind of thing, for sure. We definitely try to keep it going, but for Easter, I feel like I heard my wife having a conversation with 'em, which is mom and dad put some shit in there and the bunny puts in the rest.

Claire: I think it's a good lesson for a kid to learn maybe by accident in this loving way that perhaps the magical aspect is not there. But I still feel the love and I get the stuff, and I suppose I'm willing to live through the heartbreak of the magic if it means I am still getting the shit.

And you know, it's sort of the old, are you hiding the wrapping paper at Christmas time so that you know, they don't realize that Santa, and you are using the same, like, how long are you gonna do that for?

You know, like [00:12:00] at a certain point you're like.

Lindsey Stanberry: I grew up in a house where Santa didn't wrap gifts, so Santa doesn’t wrap gifts at our house too, so that takes care of that problem.

Quinn: That does. I think my wife had the same thing. I'm so at this point, fucking tired that I give up on most things.

But then there's certain things, for instance, we got one of those, we basically pushed our Tesla into the ocean and got one of those new VW buses. We call it the Magic School Bus.

It's great. And I told my kids I was gonna get various stickers and flames on the side, all this different stuff. Somehow we got to the point, and they're definitely in the we're increasingly embarrassed by you, which makes me want to double down. Of course. And so, somehow along the way I got the nickname from them and their friends of, it's a combination of Rizz and Zaddy.

It's the Rizzaddy and the whole name, and I joked, oh, I'm gonna get it on the license plate of the VW Buzz. And they were like, you [00:13:00] won't do that. And I looked at him really serious and I just said, how long have we known each other?

Do you think that I won't take off of work today, cancel recording with Claire to go to the DMV and apply for this?

So I feel like vis-a-vis wrapping paper, like now that I think about, I'll probably just do that till they're 40 and sell it with a straight face because what else do I have going on? You know?

Claire: Yeah. Yeah, that's true. When in doubt troll your kids more than anything else,

Lindsey Stanberry: That’s the whole point of parenthood, right?

Claire: Lindsay, may I ask you like a very practical like money question since you are on this call? And I might as well, since you're here, because my older son, he's 12 and many of his friends now have debit cards, either like an actual physical debit card or some other magical system.

Lindsey Stanberry: Yeah.

Claire: And I know your son is a little bit younger, but based on your reporting, like what are the payment options that kids are actually using these days that are not going to steal all their information or all their interest?

Like what are people doing instead of giving their kids cash? Because like more places [00:14:00] than not, are cashless anymore. So how are kids spending their money that you think makes sense?

Lindsey Stanberry: Yeah, that's a good question. 'cause I've been playing around with those apps and debit cards too, to try to figure out like what I like and what I wanna do. I see everything. I was out with a friend, like we were all hanging out. There's a place by us, it's called Industry City, which is, it's hard to explain.

It's like an outdoor mall, essentially. And so all the kids were like hanging out and the parents and one of the daughters wanted to buy some really ugly flowers as children like to buy. Right? And the mom pulled out one of those apps and was like, okay, I am transferring the $20 out of your account.

And I was like, oh that's nifty. Because I so fall into like the IOUs, yeah, five bucks here and I'm always stealing cash outta my kids' sock drawer. And I don’t know, I feel like there's gotta be a better way.

Quinn: We did the cash thing forever. And our whole policy, was like, at first it was like three bucks a week or whatever, and a dollar to spend, dollar to save, can't touch and a dollar to donate, [00:15:00] at the end of the year we clear it out.

I got so tired of dealing with ones that last year on the recommendation of a couple friends, and it's imperfect. I have screenshots that I yell at them about their UX. We switched to the Green Light thing, which is kind of a version of what you're describing, and again, pros and cons, but that's our journey.

Lindsey Stanberry: Have you settled on anything, Claire?

Claire: No, not yet. I mean, so he doesn't have a smartphone yet, and he is a seventh grader. We're trying to hang out until high school, and I guess that's maybe part of it.

His issue is that he doesn't live close to his school, so it might be different if he kind of was walking around and had more autonomy.

His main places to spend money are Walgreens and the gas station.

Quinn: What are those fucking things my kids won't stop eating? They're definitely made of like fossil fuels. Is it the Nerd gummy clusters and Pokemon cards?

Claire: I mean, just pop and candy.

Quinn: Pop, right? Yep. Pop.

Claire: You know, like there's some kind of candy that's sold in a tiny baby bottle and the candy is basically colored sugar. It's [00:16:00] like RFK Jr’s worst nightmare. And on the one hand there's part of me that's like this is so stupid. On the other hand, you're a child like. I mean, Baby's gonna buy baby things. But we did have an issue. We've had a couple little things come up once where he was trying to buy Roblox or something like that, something on Roblox. And he fucked up the transaction or something happened, but he was doing it like right before he was getting picked up.

And so we don't see him cry very often, but he was weepy because something happened where his money went away. And we still, to this day, have no idea what happened. And I was like, well, maybe you learned a lesson about not conducting transactions online when you are in a hurry and not double checking like it happens to the best of us. But recently, my husband told him that if he wanted to, my son could spend his own money on an electric scooter. And then when I got wind of that, I said, absolutely not. And there, there was a big, you know, showdown in terms of who sucks and who doesn't in the house. And obviously the one who sucks is me. I have no regrets by the way, I just learned [00:17:00] our teacher broke her foot on an e-scooter and another, a neighborhood kid, had to get stitches 'cause of an e-scooter. I don't think those should be allowed, but no one ever checks with me. But anyway, if he had his own money, you know, or you know, like an Amazon Alexa, but he doesn't have his own account.

So we're kind of in this nice place where we still kind of control him financially more or less. So, I don't know, like I really also don't wanna learn a new system. That's part of it is like, whenever I have time to figure out what is the app, what are people calling it?

Quinn: The one we settled on is Green Light again, seems to steal the least amount of information. It's all fucking relative. It's pretty easy to use. It's pretty easy to set up. They're constantly upselling you, which it’s a business, I get it. But also, please stop. And again, we don't do phones either.

Lindsay, our kids have iPads that basically are not allowed to the leave the house and they can text each other, but I put the kid app on there just so they can keep track. 'cause again, I was like, with my [00:18:00] dollar bills every Sunday they're like, did you print up the new list of our allowance?

And I was like, ah, it's gotta stop, it is too much. It's too much. So at least that's there. I automated their allowance to it, but I also set it up now that they're getting older, you can set it up and it's kind of janky. If they don't do this chore. They don't get their allowance. And for us it's you gotta bring me your laundry and a couple other things.

But it's useful. And again, they got the little debit cards and then they were furious that I didn't get the ones with their pictures on 'em. And I was like, motherfucker, guess what? They're mine now. Fuck you. But you know, I keep the debit cards. I was under the impression, which I understand now would be a technical logistical mess.

I was under the impression like I would get kind of like screen time, an alert if they tried to buy something, but I realized it would be such a pain in the ass for stores and such. So now I just get an alert after they have bought something. So we made it so they can't do it online, so they just use the card.

We keep the card, we give it to 'em. The question I would love to hear about, [00:19:00] is we still do the thirds and it automatically goes there. And for the spend anywhere they're, again, they hate me, how many times they've been like, I'm sorry, you said this was my money to spend.

And I'm like, yeah, but fucking not on that. And they're like, this whole thing is a scam. So anyways, yes. We're doing the Green Light thing. It's fine.

Lindsey Stanberry: I had a friend tell me a story about when she was a kid and you know, there's always those stories like stick with you, right? And her and her brother were at the zoo and her brother wanted to buy like a really dumb stuffed animal and he had the money for it. And his dad was like, no, like you can't buy it. And he’s like but it's my money. And dad was like, no. And I think that sent the sister, now adult, like down a spiral of, you know, this is a scam. So I kind of think you have to let your kids, if you tell 'em it's their money, then they even if you don't agree, as long as it's not like cigarettes and beer.

Quinn: I'm such a, like a crazy person about, I think it was like, again, those like Nerd gummy things or some something fucking terrible and yeah, I think you're right though. [00:20:00]

Lindsey Stanberry: Because then you make it forbidden fruit.

Claire: Yeah.

Lindsey Stanberry: Just let them buy that crap. They can only eat so much of it before it makes them throw up. And that's a whole lesson in itself.

Quinn: It's true. They're definitely nearing the whole I don't feel good like cause and effect thing, and I'm like, whoops.

Claire: Yeah, no. My system is to let them buy candy and then forget they have it, and then you throw it away secretly. And that seems to work out. At least it doesn't make it forbidden fruit, which was definitely my thing. But I think the more we talk about this more, I'm like, I don't wanna be a banker and I don't want a system. Or more systems, so much of parenting is setting up a system and a chart. And we don't do a chore chart or allowance because I just can't keep up with it. So there's certain things that you have to do to live in this house. They're pretty minimal. They're mainly take your dish to the sink when you're done eating.

Push in your chairs. Those are like the most bare minimum things. We don't make them make their beds because I just cannot oversee it. The older one is in charge of his laundry. He requires some prompts, and so on the one [00:21:00] hand my kids do a lot less probably for themselves and or earn less.

But I truly just, I cannot manage all this and be like, well, you get 50 cents less because you like didn't make your bed good.

Quinn: That's why we tried to automate it. Like I was about to break and I just said it's pre-programmed. The only thing I have to do is it sends me an alert if like my account is outta money. So yeah, same thing. It's like I can't do another thing.

Lindsey Stanberry: I don't know, like I don't get paid to do chores around the house. Like, nobody’s giving me cash to make my bed, so don't like tying the two. And then, you know, some people will pay their kids to read or like practice piano, and I'm like you just have to do those things because they make you a better person. I don't like tying cash rewards to just everyday tasks. People do though and like some people are really motivated by that. I also am like not personally motivated by those things. I remember like when I used to work corporate jobs and they'd be like, get a bonus if you hit this goal. And I'm like okay. Tell me I'm pretty and I'll hit that goal, but I don't really care about your cash prize.

Quinn: Right, right. I got all these other [00:22:00] problems, but not that one. Yeah, no we're definitely, again, more like real talk it's like you guys gotta carry a lot of weight.

And we definitely are trying as they get older and understand it more to delineate between no, this is so you get to live here and this is you're taking on some big kid stuff and this is helpful, and things like that. And that's kind of what it comes to, especially since we're putting, frankly, they don't get two thirds of it. I mean, two thirds of it goes into save and donate. So I don't know.

Lindsey Stanberry: Like the question of then, like if you give them an allowance, what don't you pay for on a regular basis? Like it started with us, like we were talking about ice cream. Will I pick up the tab for ice cream? Or if I pay you an allowance, do you have to buy the ice cream? I don't know, that's like a moral quandary I haven't figured out the answer to.

Quinn: I think we try to make those things again, like I'm the jerk, when we do that and make it clear, it's like, special occasion, we're going to do this, and this. That's on mom and dad. But if it's a fucking Thursday and you're like, can I get ice cream? It's like, sure you [00:23:00] can. Here's your card. Like best wishes.

Lindsey Stanberry: I think that's right. 'cause I'm so cheap. We'll be out and he'll be like, can we get a treat? I was like no, we have treats at home.

Quinn: Yeah.

Claire: Lindsay, do you, we talked about this for Evil Witches, I just curious what is your, when your kid, let's say his grandma gives him a $25 gift card for like Barnes and Noble or whatever for his birthday.

What is your system for storing these gift cards and like whether he can use them whatever the hell you want, or you're like, we're gonna make a special trip, today is the day you're gonna spend your gift card. You know, do you kind of secretly donate them? Just tell me how you manage that.

Lindsey Stanberry: Yeah, now that you're saying this, I'm like, where are the gift cards? It's so hard 'cause we get a lot of Amazon gift cards and I don't personally like shopping on Amazon. We'll pick a day, like months later, I'll be like, okay, like you just got a bunch of stuff. I dunno if you guys find this, but like my kid gets into such a like gimme stage when we have like birthdays and Christmas where he is just I want more and more. And it's whoa. Like you need a detox, it's like [00:24:00] a shopping detox. So let's put a pause on this and revisit it in March when there's nothing fun going on.

So that's what I usually try to do. We set them aside, they're typically lost, and then they'll be found and then it's oh, this is a good Saturday to go to Barnes and Noble. And sometimes I'll trade him. Like I often, I'm such a re-gifter, apologies to all our friends. I will probably give your gift to somebody else.

And I usually have a mental tab going in my head about who gave what, making sure they aren't at that next birthday party. So they're not saying that I've regifted that I know my kid does not really want.

And I'll do the same with gift cards and I'll just tell my kid, like, why don't we give Henry the $25 Amazon gift card and next time we're at Barnes and Noble, I'll buy you some books. Not usually dollar for a dollar though. 'cause he's not smart enough to, he's not keeping track that closely.

Claire: No, I mean, you're the banker and you deserve to take like your teller fees and things like that.

Lindsey Stanberry: Yeah. And it's not like he sits down when he gets all that [00:25:00] like onslaught of gift cards. Right. And is like I got four $25 Amazon gift cards. You owe me. You know, cash this in for the right amount. But I also like, I don't know, he got something recently. He bought some game and he used his money to pay for it, and then of course there's tax and he was like, oh, I didn't think about the tax.

And I was like, I'll cover the tax, it's fine. I do feel like to a certain extent, I'm not nickel and diming him. So it's a two way street.

Quinn: I will bring up the tax thing and acknowledge it like you did, but I'll also make them feel shit about it. I'm like, well you better hope the house doesn't burn down 'cause that paid for the firefighters. And then I'll give them the money.

Claire: Something that's funny about being a parent is realizing that the need to teach kids how to shop on Amazon, and it makes you realize that you had these own systems that you didn't even realize that you set up in your head. Like for instance, my son was looking for a specific Pokemon card, and of course you can't just buy one card, like you have to go and buy a pack. And then on Amazon there's a million vendors selling these packs. And you have these weird little ways of sorting out who seems legit and [00:26:00] reading the reviews and sorting like the legitness versus the review system. And you don't even realize you have these, and I'm curious whether you've been through something like that with your kid where like he is oh, I wanna buy these, you know, Crocs that are being sold by this vendor that seems possibly shady and not real. And maybe it'll just be a picture of a Croc. You know, have you gone through that kind of like online shopping literacy with him yet?

Lindsey Stanberry: No. So I don't shop on Amazon. I don't know if your kids are into it, but he is obsessed with Lego mini figs, with Star Wars and that is the biggest scam ever. And I just, I don't know, the toy collection market and the markups on that stuff is crazy.

Claire: No, I've had to just let go and let God basically, and just choose my battles and be like, well, no electric scooters, but yes, 3000 Lego mini figures. You know, like you could only do so much.

Quinn: The truth and your battles really is a big part of it.

Lindsey Stanberry: I hate it so much. I just find it so scammy and then we’ll gift him like fancy [00:27:00] Pokemon cards and then get upset that they're like buried in the pile of Pokemon cards. Like he’s eight or he's six. He doesn't understand collectibles and also like collectibles are stupid. There I said it, I'm sure the nerds will come for me.

Claire: I'm ashamed to admit that there was a while where my son was, I think, earning Pokemon cards as I was trying that out as a form of currency. So it was like, if you did five jobs, you would earn five Pokemon cards. Then God help you if you like gave him five shitty Pokemon cards and he felt like he had done all of that work for nothing, you know?

And then you're like, what the hell am I doing here? I have a master's degree. Like, what's happened to my life?

Quinn: Yep. Yep. We're trying to move more just in general. Again, that's the allowance thing. I'm not gonna change it again. I'm gonna go with Green Light until they sell everybody's information and they can't get an abortion anywhere. We're gonna stick with that. But as far as gifts and stuff like that we're really trying to push towards like experiences, which I know is like the cliche annoying thing, but we try to follow through on it.

Like kids are big enough. [00:28:00] Covid is where it is that we're trying to do some travel stuff and things like that. We're going to do an Alaska trip in a month and a half, which is pretty exciting and a huge trip and just monstrously expensive. And we're like, that's the thing.

That is the thing, like for the year plus. But, you know, if you want books about it before we go or you wanna buy this while we're there, whatever. That's different to me. You know, we're not bringing home a bunch of shit, but I don't know, trying to make it slightly more meaningful.

Claire: It's the old battle of what you want to kind of convey to the world with your values versus the fact that kid kids are horrible and are not evolved. Like we want them to be a certain level of person and they're not.

Quinn: So Claire, how are you modeling spending money for your children? Both consciously and not consciously?

Claire: God.

Quinn: Like how often do boxes show up? That aren't cleaning supplies and shit like that. 'cause I got a lot of shit for a long time. 'cause boxes kept showing up and I was like, we have three children under three years old. It's just diapers and wipes. [00:29:00] I know this seems crazy 'cause it's got my name on it, but it's just on auto subscribe.

Claire: I mean, I don't think I do too bad, although I did buy myself like a $400, like LED face mask thing for my birthday because I had a big Nordstrom gift card.

Quinn: Where is that? Let's see it.

Claire: It's right here on my face. Can't you see how good my face looks? Like it's for everyone that’s watching the video. No, I am gonna let my son see a picture of me wearing the mask as part of his birthday tomorrow. He really wants to see me wearing it. I'm like, I'll let you see.

Quinn: It's so creepy. It's so fucked up.

Claire: By the way, he noticed that my older son when he turned 10, his main birthday was a later bedtime. And my younger son is mad that it's not his gift. And I was like, well, Paul chose the bedtime over presents, so you could have to have a later bedtime or present, you know, again, you get into these like Byzantine.

Quinn: That’s a good one though. That's a really good one.

Lindsey Stanberry: How late is the bedtime?

Claire: Well back then it was like nine o'clock because we were so regimented back then that we could control things that [00:30:00] we were like, we will give you another half an hour. But now we are in a whole other reality with like sports schedules and people often may not come home until after nine and the younger kid is going to bed later than the older one did at his age anyway, so it doesn't make any sense.

Quinn: On a non activities night, doesn't have to be sports. Everyone's home, not a weekend. What's bedtime? What time are you going upstairs or to the bedroom or wherever. It's a non-activity night, which I know doesn't fucking happen. But think about this winter when you didn't sign your kids up for shit.

Like what time?

Claire: Eight o'clock for the younger one, and then the older one, you know, he makes his moves and he goes up there, but he doesn't have to turn his light off until nine 30 or when I go to bed, basically. So, there's a difference between going in bed, lights out and then bedtime.

Quinn: Totally.

Claire: Eight 30, just because the younger one needs it.

Quinn: What's he, what's he doing in there? What's he got access to? What's he doing?

Claire: A little this, a little that.

Quinn: What the fuck does that mean?

Claire: He just he has like projects that he works on. So sometimes he is reading.

Quinn: Okay, is there screens?

Claire: No.

Quinn: Ok so [00:31:00] then who fucking cares, right? At that point I don't give a fuck.

Claire: He might be making action cards. There was a while where he was making his own, like trading cards with his friends. And I did let him use an Amazon gift card 'cause he wanted to buy himself a laminating machine.

His excitement over this laminating machine was so cute. I like can't describe it.

Quinn: Lindsay. Non-activity night, not a weekend.

Lindsey Stanberry: About the same, going to bed, in the bedroom reading books by 8, 8 15, lights out by 8 45.

And he's pretty good about it. I'm really not looking forward to him being up late.

Claire: Yeah.

Lindsey Stanberry: We have a small apartment, so like it, we're all here in it together.

Quinn: There's no hiding.

Claire: My older kid yesterday, and maybe this was, you could look at this as being sad, kind of sad I guess, and like Wall-E, but I decided it was sweet. Like he is into coding right now, the older one. And so he was doing some coding. He's like, can I sit next to you and work next to you? Like last night.

And we did that, like we sat in front of the baseball game with our laptops out and we [00:32:00] did our thing. And it could have been better. We could have been playing cards, we could have been throwing the ball around. But also he chose to be next to me in physical space and you know, and that was, I'll take it.

Quinn: I think as long as that's not the fucking rule, then great. You know, it's found time.

Claire: I could see him, see what he was doing. And I saw that he was coding and he wasn't, you know, on four chan or whatever the hell I'm supposed to be worried about at this moment in time, you know. But Lindsay, I have a question for you 'cause you said your husband is an only child?

Lindsey Stanberry: Yeah.

Claire: Okay, mine is too. And I'm curious, I mean, this is not only subject to only children, but I'm curious whether you and your husband have had to kind of come to terms in regards to how much your kid gets at any given holiday or Christmas, and which one of you is more the hardass and which one of you is more it's not Christmas if the tree isn't, you know, groaning, you know, with, you know, holding up all of these gifts and things like that, or standing on top of these gifts, I guess.

But like, did you guys have to kind of, negotiate on that or you had similar philosophies the whole time?

Lindsey Stanberry: No, [00:33:00] do we have similar philosophies? I don't think we have similar philosophies. I think he likes to make everybody happy,

So he's not gonna create any controversy at the holidays. And I do not like the holidays because it's an influx of toys and expectations and everybody else's happiness and not mine.

So the toys come and we have not, we've not figured it out. I've thought of a million things. I've proposed a million things, and then I feel like Covid happened and all sort of negotiating I tried to do it with family, went out the window, I just keep telling myself that the toy stage will not last forever.

Quinn: I gotta tell you because they're so close in age, it went on for a long time, I thought. But it was because like we didn't have a kid who was 12 and a kid who was two. We didn't have a big gap, you know, where we were like, oh, someone has clearly moved outta this. They were all just in it.

And then about six months ago, and again how old are my kids, Claire? 10, 11, 12, something [00:34:00] like that. Sure. We've got this little finished basement and that's where our kinda always been our rule. And we've been in this house for three years, whatever. That's where your shit is, right?

Your rooms are basically books and colored pencils and stuff. We went from okay, let's move the baby stuff out to let's move the toddler stuff out to let's move this. And we finally looked around about six months ago and we were like, oh, you guys don't use any of this shit. And of course I am just obnoxiously sentimental and have to fight it at every turn.

So they were like, burn it all. And I was like, well, we could save these 22 things and tried to cull it down and this and that, but I'm also like increasingly wanna get rid of shit. But I was really surprised. Like I was really surprised I looked around and I was like, oh, they just want like musical instruments and like a fucking trapeze bar.

And there's still some Legos, but even that is starting to go away, which is crazy. So the point is you'll get there and it's kind of unexpected.

Lindsey Stanberry: Yeah. It's funny though, because we're about to, my parents [00:35:00] are moving furniture around in their house. They're giving us a double bed that they have in an extra bedroom, and that means we're getting rid of my son's twin bed and I think we should do like a big toy clean out. And we were, we cuddle in bed in the evenings after he reads for a while and we were laying in bed and I was talking to him about getting the bigger bed and that we'll both be able to fit in the bed again.

And I was like, and I think it'll be a good opportunity to get rid of some toys. And all of a sudden he starts crying and he's like my childhood is disappearing.

Quinn: Ugh.

Claire: Oh no. Oh man.

Lindsey Stanberry: I was like, I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. Because yeah dude, it is.

Quinn: I mean, again, if you're like a sentimental monster, I've wanted to be a dad since I was five. And now like my kids are like, well, you never know. I'm gonna be driving and then in college you're never gonna see me again. I'm like, well, don't talk to me for a week. 'cause now I'm really upset.

I don't handle it well at all. But that's amazing. Like the [00:36:00] self-awareness to just.

Claire: That is so bedtime though. That is so bedtime. I mean where are those emotions like right after school for instance? That is not when you know, when you're like, how was your day? And they're like, why are you talking to me?

Lindsey Stanberry: No. It comes when you're like, I'm exhausted and don't wanna talk to you anymore. Can you please go to bed?

Claire: And they're like, what happens when you die? Like my son asked me the other night, if you die while you're having a dream, does the dream end? Like when you die? I was like, whoa. I was like, I don't know, like maybe that's like the best ending. I was like, that's a good one.

Quinn: Were you like, I kind of want to go that way now. That sounds amazing. Like it depends on the dream, I guess. Right? If it's one of the fucking college, I missed an exam dream, I don't wanna go that way. That sounds terrible.

Claire: My elderly aunt told me the other day, I hope you die in your sleep. And she meant that as like a compliment, like a fond wish and not, and I was like, thank you. I hope so too. Anyway, but like my older son is like that as well in terms of the [00:37:00] sentimentality. So when he was nine, about to turn 10, he said that he did not wanna turn 10.

He was gonna choose not to turn 10 and he was gonna stick with nine, you know, for a long time. But you know, he seems like he's been able to roll with it. But I remember like feeling this way as an adult. Like I would feel this sense of guilt about growing up and I would not wanna do that to my kids and be like, I can't believe you're so big.

You know? And of course I do that to my older son all the time 'cause he is almost my height. And I love it. I'm very excited by him being my height almost. 'cause I'm not. I don't have a green thumb. I feel like I'm not a very nurturing person, but I'm like, look what I did.

Like he was real small when he was born.

Quinn: He made it.

Claire: Yeah, exactly. But I also am like, you little baby, you little tiny baby. But he doesn't seem to mind it too much. But yeah don't ever ask them if it's okay to get rid of their stuff because they're never gonna be like, let me help you with that.

I'm gonna feel so fulfilled by donating my own things and thinking about the next life they're gonna have. That's not how they often roll in my opinion.

Lindsey Stanberry: I have a friend whose kid set up [00:38:00] a toy, like a toy stand and sold all their toys at the local playground one day. And then like all these parents were like, are they donating the money? And she's like no, they're not donating the money. They're keeping the money.

Quinn: This is America. Yeah. He's putting in derivatives. Are you fucking kidding me?

Claire: Can I say like a hot take whenever a kid is donating money, that's about the parent. That's about the parent trying their hardest.

Quinn: Thanks, Claire.

Claire: Sorry, Quinn.

Quinn: It's all right. It's fine.

Claire: I mean, I know when you want the kid then to start up a method of, I mean, I've done that as well. Like if you're gonna donate, please donate to the World Wildlife Fund.

'cause you know, and we'd done that, but you know my kid, the other day he was at a volleyball game. And he found a brand new football, like at the park and he said, can I take this home? And I said, what would you do knowing that this had been him, what would you do if you lost your brand new favorite football and you went back to try to find it and someone had taken it home instead of left it for you? And he said, I would be sad because that happened to me. And I was like, right. And I was patting myself on the back for [00:39:00] being like, great job, Claire, with teaching your kid empathy and perspective taking. And then two days later I realized that football was in my car. Like he, he thought about it.

Quinn: Motherfucker. What?

Claire: And he was like, if it happened to me, it's gonna happen to this kid. So, I mean, maybe you guys are just better parents or have better kids than I do.

Quinn: No. Fully caught my 9-year-old going through my 12 year old's wallet the other day, and he was like, I'm just counting it. I was like, yeah, I'm sure you just fucking counting it. He just lying straight to my face. Jesus. That's incredible. That's outstanding. That’s like Usual Suspects level shit.

Let me ask you guys some sort of real world ish questions, if that's okay. Lindsay, I'm not sure if you're too familiar with my actual job, my other stuff I do. But you know, the cost of living right now is a lot. And all of our kids, Lindsay, you know, one at eight is a little not ready for this, not appropriate, however you wanna phrase it, but when and how [00:40:00] much as everything is very expensive, we're all obviously doing okay. Housing, if you get a car, if you switch a job, if you are buying food like in the the store, how much do you talk to them about what it costs and how hard it is to get that money and trying to put in their perspective. 'cause I'll often do the dickish thing where they're like, you know, my daughter's such a good sport. She'll come and watch the boys baseball, it's baseball season, right? And they'll have five hours straight at games and she'll sit there and we got into this little, it's kinda like a fun habit of, you know, we'll get there.

Sometimes games are eight in the morning, and we'll just be like, okay, we'll order a little DoorDash like breakfast and we'll get coffee for the other parents or whatever. And then two hours later she's like, can we order something else? And we're like, well, hold on a fucking minute. To be clear, that was the one thing, but that was like 20 bucks.

And to be clear, that's like a month of your allowance. And she's like fuck. Right. That's one way to do it, I guess. But constructively trying to help them understand without being a downer of it is a lot, you know, [00:41:00] and I guess the further example is like we have some things that other folks might not have access to, like these vegetables and fruits and a car, whatever it might be.

I'm curious. Lindsay, how much do you see that in your work, but also have you started to work that in?

Lindsey Stanberry: It's funny you say that. 'cause my kid this week was like, I don't really have any concept of what things cost and what's expensive. And then he was like, $7 doesn't seem like a lot for eggs. And I was like, I don't even know how to like, where do I start here?

So he asks so many questions and I am always very confused on how to answer them and like, how much to share. And there was like a whole point where he like wanted to know how much we had in our like checking and savings. And I was like, dude, like I'm not telling you that

Quinn: Yeah.

Lindsey Stanberry: You're gonna go and tell all your friends.

And also you have no concept of what it means. And I talked to somebody, think it was Bobby Rebel, who is a financial journalist and she has much older [00:42:00] kids. And I was telling her sort of some of his stories about the crazy questions he asked, and she was like, you should reply with a question.

And I really liked that. And I think Ron Lieber does the same thing where he's like, you just just ask why do you wanna know? And I did that with my kid and it came down to this feeling for him that he just wanted to know that we were like financially secure enough.

Because I had left my job and you know, like I have said we're not spending on this right now 'cause we don't have as much money coming in and we’re trying to be thoughtful. And like without me realizing it, like he was feeling sort of insecure. So these days I try to like respond to a question with a question, which is hard and you have to pause and remind yourself not be like, what is this insane question you're asking? And it's funny for me because much of the point of the work that I do is like encouraging people to talk about money. When your kid starts asking questions you're like I don't really wanna answer that. I don’t really wanna share with you.

Quinn: But they're sharing your stuff and like kind of giving 'em a general context for it. And then there's contextualizing just the [00:43:00] world a little bit. If you're checking out at groceries or the bodega or whatever, like you don't have to specifically talk about what's in your 401k if they see the register and say, okay, that's $35 for these things.

And no, that's a little more than it used to be. And I dunno, again, like we're trying to position that just honestly part of it's just 'cause it truly among everything like we've now entered, escape velocity. Like they feel like they're getting older quicker and I'm like, oh, we gotta start doing a little bit of this, you know, beyond allowance and more just educational on how things go.

Hey, this is why you need a job. Yeah. I dunno. I'm curious. It's a lot, you know, that's a whole other phase of questions.

Claire: We have, it's not fair for us. I'll just say we have, I'm kind of being facetious, but like, when our parents, I feel like money hadn't changed in generations. Like when our parents were kids and when they had us, like cash is cash. And I remember learning how to write a check in high school.

I remember my mom used to pay for her groceries with [00:44:00] checks.

Quinn: Sure.

Claire: And I wonder if my kids will ever learn how to write a check. Like then there's the internet, there's buying things online. I don't think debit cards were even a thing actually when we were kids.

Lindsey Stanberry: No.

Claire: And then crypto, forget it.

And then, I mean, my son was rolling his eyes at me last night 'cause we were watching the baseball game and I said, please don't ever use your phone, which he doesn't even have one yet, to gamble. And he was like, why are you talking like this?

Quinn: Nothing makes me happier than your drive by like yelling at them. It makes me so happy, where they're like, guess what? You ruined this now too.

Claire: Yeah, exactly.

Quinn: Should we talk about fentanyl? Right.

Claire: There's this other commercial about like playing the Illinois lotto on the phone and it just drives me crazy, but like I feel completely unequipped to talk to them about that. And I mean, the only money conversation that we had yesterday was that I treated myself this week to, I'm trying to make myself

eat healthier. And I bought some raspberries, which I probably already shouldn't have done, like guilt trip number one. But my son was rinsing out the citrus squeezer and I was like, what were you doing with [00:45:00] that? He told me he took one of my raspberries and squeezed it in the orange squeezer to try to make raspberry juice.

And I was like, okay, just so you know, that was $5, like that container of raspberries. And he's like, you bought three of those. I was like, that's $15 worth of raspberries. I know. You know? And I think for the first time he kind of thought about groceries, and again, that was on me for buying a very extravagant grocery, but yeah, don't play with my food.

But in his defense, apparently he ate the squished raspberry. So all's well that ends well.

Quinn: Do you remember when your kids would put their hands in your water and you would just feel this sense of dying inside? 'cause you're like, you couldn't pay me any amount of money to drink that water now. Why did you do that?

Claire: Yeah, I bought a book when my kids were younger, called How to Make Your Kid a Money Genius, even if you're not. Do you know her? Lindsay, Beth, Kobliner, is her name.

Lindsey Stanberry: I know of her and I've had friends who've worked with her, but I've never met her.

Claire: And I, she had a lot of great ideas, especially for littler kids, like about talking to your kid ahead of time about how [00:46:00] we're gonna go in the store, but we’re not buying something for you. And practicing the difficulty of saying no to buying things. But I was like, I promised myself, I'm like, with every stage I'm gonna review this book and refresh myself with what my kids need to know.

And that goal went out the window. 'cause who has time to remember to return to a book that you bought 10 years ago. But also it's kind of outdated already, you know? And the book only concerns, it only imagines that you have nothing else to think about besides talking to your kid about money, let alone, you know, all of these other things. Let's say your kid at school, they're like, if your kid brings in $2 tomorrow, they can get a Popsicle 'cause they're raising money for whatever bullshit thing, you know? And you are like, well first of all, do I have $2? And do they need a Popsicle? But also, I guess this is fundraising, you know, it all goes out the window.

And so, you know, I think the thing that I think about is trying to talk to 'em about generational wealth, you know, because my parents help out a lot, you know, and it's not just the finances, but then the cultural decisions. For instance I don't believe [00:47:00] our kids would necessarily be as into Catholic school perhaps if my parents were not, you know, had input and ways to support that.

But I don't know, then you risk, run the risk of telling your kids like, well, my grandparents are actually in charge, or my grandparents are rich, or, you know, something like that. And that's not easy to apply. Do you know anyone aside from yourself obviously, who seems like they have found some kind of philosophy that works? Or are we all just making up as we go along and it's pointless to hope to have a kid who will be a financial genius.

Lindsey Stanberry: I think most people are making it up as they go along.

Claire: That makes me feel better.

Lindsey Stanberry: I mean, isn't that just like parenting in general?

Quinn: Clearly. Have you listened to the other episodes of this show? It's a train wreck.

Lindsey Stanberry: I'm like a laissez fair parent. I don't read the books and don't do as much research as maybe I'm supposed to and like I kind of wait until there's like a crisis to be like, oh I should probably see how other people handle this.

Quinn: I mean, that's what Reddit's for. We're increasingly, again, like [00:48:00] the system we set up, it became too much, moved to this one. You know, we do a fair amount of giving, not just the children's donating, but my wife and I do, and they're not aware of a lot of that.

But we're trying to kind of, I guess, hit these like fundamental again, like everything, like you said, cash is out, now your kids are gonna want their own meme coin, like all this different shit. There's certain things, right, that aren't gonna change. Just you know, a lot of my job is not necessarily about the new climate tech.

It's like why people keep making the same decisions for 10,000 years. Like, how interest works isn't gonna change. Right. Literally how it's calculated, you know? So when they see a commercial it says like you can switch to this bank or whatever, you get 4%. It's like you're gonna understand how that works.

Right? And Green Light, you can actually offer, this is not a commercial. Like you can set like parent interest, right. And you can say they get this much for keeping it in save. And I told them that. I said, I know you're annoyed, like what is the saving for? And I'm [00:49:00] like, you don't know yet, but the longer you keep it in there, we'll give you whatever, I think, I don't know what we said, 5%, 10% or whatever, you know, then you get it once a month and it's automatic. I'm like, look, you did that. That is something that's not going anywhere. Giving is not going anywhere. You know, again, vis-a-vis my work. 'cause they understood a little more. Like we've tried to talk about the decisions that have been made on the macro level with things like USAID and stuff like that and go that's not just money in a vacuum. That's people's lives. And we're gonna think about like, how can we help that? Because this is how much it costs. The most effective NGO on the entire planet is called Against Malaria.

And they have it down to a science how much it costs to save a life with a treated bed net. And I'm like, guys, this is, of your allowance, that is what you could do. That is what people do. And when you scale it up, this and this. So we're really trying to just look at those basics as much as we can and do those things.

It's, you know, all the crazy shit about moving it around online and all that stuff. And I don't know, it's just gonna change by the time I get a handle on it, like you said, look it up after. But I feel like there's some [00:50:00] fundamentals of, you know, how it can be useful. Will the IRS exist tomorrow?

Probably not, but you know, I feel like that's what we have bandwidth for.

Lindsey Stanberry: Claire, I feel like I'm kind of like you and I do those like drive by parenting if there's this thing happening in the moment with gambling online and I'm just like, don’t do that. I kind of believe it sticks, even though I sometimes feel like a peanut's grown up, you know, like wah wah wah, right? Every once in a while he'll come back and he'll say it with something I've said and I'm like, oh, you were listening.

Claire: Yeah.

Quinn: We've started this new thing where we let our children mock us. We'll take a minute at the dinner table and be like, okay, impersonate someone at this table and holy shit, you better be ready. But they fuck with my wife so hard. Her favorite thing. Now again, the drive by thing. I guess she doesn't start this way every time, but they were like, oh, who am I?

Who am I? I go studies show this plastic water bottle's terrible for you. And she's like, motherfucker and they're like, that's all you say is we're just trying to have a good time. And you're just like, that peanut butter will kill you. And they're like. [00:51:00] Nevermind.

Claire: Lindsay, I don't know if you saw, I presume you saw a couple months ago, Emily Gould did another piece in the Cut about FOMO in New York about how she raised her kids around some like crazy wealth. And I'm curious what the scene is for you and if there's been anything that your son has seen that you're like, holy shit, like he needs to know that?

Lindsey Stanberry: I'm like super lucky. We live in not a fancy neighborhood and he goes to not a fancy school. And I like have purposely picked up friends who all seem to have similar income. The big thing is that we have a few friends with houses, even in Brooklyn and we do not. And so every once in a while he'll be like, you know, my friend has an upstairs and a backyard and his house is more fun for sleepovers. Well, that's fine.

Quinn: Great for them.

Lindsey Stanberry: I get to go to a movie when you go to a sleepover. So everybody wins. But yeah, I thought that article was really interesting. Part of me was like, you should just move. Which [00:52:00] is rude and I really like Emily's work a lot, so I don't wanna be like, so dismissive.

But, I did have some friends whose kids go to school in like proper Park Slope and she was like, man, these parents, they like, they're too cool.

Claire: I think Emily's pieces sometimes serve as like the opposite of a commercial for raising a family in New York, in Manhattan, where you're like, oh my God. I mean, at least our kids go to school. They used to go to school that was more economically mixed and the downside is that their current school is not, but I think it's good.

It makes me happy when they notice kids have more than they do. 'cause I'm like, what are you lacking? And explain our philosophy. Like my son was like, a lot of my friends are going skiing for break and I'm like, yeah, I used to go skiing when I was a kid.

And I was like, and it's really expensive and I don't feel like dealing with you, you know? And it's fun and I'm glad your friends are having fun, but this is why we don't do it, you know? And so I'm thankful for these fancy parents. It could be so much worse. I have a friend whose son is jealous.

They go to [00:53:00] a different school and he's embarrassed because they don't have an indoor basketball court in their house, which is I guess a thing a lot of his friends have at his school. Yeah. So, you know, our kids embarrassingly have a, my husband bought them a basketball hoop for our driveway, not the flex, but we do have a driveway.

And that hoop was one of the best mileage per buck gifts we could ever have.

Lindsey Stanberry: I bet it is.

Claire: But yeah, they do have to wait for it to not rain to use it. That is the, you know, the old fashioned downside to it.

Lindsey Stanberry: Oh that’s really hard.

I grew up at a school like that, like with kids who were really wealthy. Like I remember one kid went up in his dad's private plane for his like, science fair experiment. Okay.

Claire: Quinn, what do your kids have FOMO about?

Quinn: I mean on a day-to-day basis. You know that I'm around at all. And that it's not just their mom in charge because she's more fun. I think that's it. The fear of missing out of not having me. No. It's a hard one. So, Lindsay, my kids were born in LA and [00:54:00] we were there for just about the first full eight years of my oldest's life.

And then we came back for Covid, stayed here for a couple years, did remote school, decided we were gonna move here. So our cheat code, Lindsey is, we have two grandmas down the street,

We made it that way. That was the biggest reason for doing it. They weren't both here.

My mom was here. We got my wife's mom to move here. Anyways, we moved and you know, I think we were just, and look, we've got wonderful friends still back in Los Angeles. I was there for 15 years. My wife was there for 25 years. I am glad that they are not exposed to a lot of the trappings there, again, arguably the most diverse place on the planet. It’s incredible.

The food, the arts, it's incredible. It's incredible. You can't trade that. So we really do, we do try to take them back. We try to go to DC, all these different things, expose 'em to things that we took them out of. But on a day-to-day basis, it just felt like to me, not even as a 10-year-old or a [00:55:00] 12-year-old that it's hard to miss some of that stuff.

I think the short answer is I feel like I've beat so much of that out of them at this point. Metaphorically. Just saying, like, all we say is sorry, we don't do it that way. Whether it's phones or money or trips or whatever it might be, well, we'll do 'em. And we make it clear this is a lot, this is what it's gonna be. Mom and dad work really hard for this. But that day-to-day stuff I don't know.

This is a long rambling answer to I'd be curious what they feel FOMO about at this point, because we kind of took them out of that and because you know, we've just tried to make a really clear, probably very frustrating to them at times, line of what we're doing and what we're not.

So I don't know. It's a really good question. I'll ask them. I'll report back. They'll tell me.

Lindsey Stanberry: That line about, you know, that's what our family does, not what other families do. That's what their family does. That's not what we do, is, I don't know, it's a line I'm gonna die on.

Quinn: Yeah. And I feel like it's definitely my version of because I said so in some ways but [00:56:00] I'm also like, that is the deal. So Lindsay, we put in a landline phone, it is pink, it is wired to the fucking wall. And we put a chair there and we said, you can make a phone book of all your aunts and uncle's phone numbers, your friends, they can call you whenever you want.

You can call them. They literally will get on the phone, call my mom next door and just talk shit about me. And I'm like, great, don't care. But I'm like, that's it. I told you we're not getting a phone. And like mom and I like, we don't, well when we say things like at some point, I, again, and this is what I mean, like I think at this point they're like, oh, they were telling the truth, like they're actually not gonna move on some of this shit.

Lindsey Stanberry: Do any of their friends have phones? I'm scared of the phone thing.

Quinn: A lot of friends have phones. We're really trying to be the house that their friends want to come to, but we're also trying to be the house that when their friends come over we're like, dump the screens in the bowls kids like we're not doing it. And sometimes they're annoyed and then they kind of forget about 'em for a little bit, which is nice.

But yeah, a lot of them do. Which is frustrating.

Claire: I have a new plan, which my son shot it down immediately. But I was like, I wish there was a course [00:57:00] that where you give a kid a phone and there's a course that shows them how to use their phone, but also like phone safety I mean, I don't know how to use my phone, you know, to all its capability.

I don't want to, honestly, but I also am not equipped to teach my kid how to use a phone. And I was thinking about this like out loud, and my kid was like, I would not do that. I would be mortified to do something like that. And I have faith that the Almighty iPhone designers had done this to make people catch up really quickly.

That's how they designed it. But I do wish there was like some, you know, like a driver's test, but for your phone and also, you know.

Lindsey Stanberry: I like that idea.

Claire: But he did not like that idea. I remember when I was a kid getting kind of blindsided by these moments that seemed to be sort of arbitrary, like explosions of, at me for my ingratitude or selfishness.

And I could never quite tell what caused it. And, but now as a parent I feel that and I appreciate that and I think it is your right, like for instance I ordered my kid two pairs of shoes online the other day. 'cause he, it was a thing at church, in school and they needed [00:58:00] nice shoes and I was like all stressed out about it and he doesn't know like how much I spent on these shoes, which probably rounded up to $200, including the shipping and how much he benefits from me just ordering these shoes and guessing his size online and not dragging his ass to the store to measure his feet and do the whole shebang. And he is not currently in trouble.

Like I'm not mad at him for anything, but I reserve the right to get mad at him later on and be like you got two new pairs of shoes and you don't even know, and you don't even realize, you know, and I'm not doing it on purpose.

Quinn: We're trying really hard and I do a terrible job in the moment and honestly, I wrestle with this all the time of helping them, of empathizing with them. And I mean, we love therapy. We got a family full of mental health therapists, like all this different stuff. Like it's hard being a kid. Of explaining hey guys, like many things can be true at once.

Many feelings can be true at once. You can feel all those, like I'm sure you are grateful for what we're doing right now, but you also do want the next thing that you could have had or that your friends are staying around [00:59:00] to do this. And then I'll ruin it by being like, just be grateful we're going home.

And it's oh, can you just do the thing? You know, acknowledge it. But I don't know. So again, I don't know if they've learned the lesson or they just have given up on a lot of that stuff.

Claire: Yeah, no, somewhere in between all of that I would say. Lindsay, do you like go off on your kid and does he ever try to mansplain?

Lindsey Stanberry: Doesn’t everyone go off on their kid?

Claire: Well, does he try to mansplain money and savings and value to you and then you're like, this is my goddamn job. Like I have thousands of people who like look to me as an expert.

Does that go over well?

Lindsey Stanberry: Well, I'm sure he will, I feel like maybe he's a little too small, too young to be mansplaining, but he does mansplain plenty of things. And you know, they think they're so smart. Like really there's nobody smarter than he is. The big fight we've been over and that I've lost and I'm not happy about was Roblox whether or not he was allowed to get an account.

Claire: Well, you know, that's okay. It's good to know, it’s good to let your kid bully you [01:00:00] a little bit sometimes, like again, you can get it back at him, you know, for, or you can leverage that Roblox when you have to, you know, you can take it away.

Lindsey Stanberry: Like that means other things he doesn't get right. Something like that.

Quinn: There was like a New York Times or something article recently. It was like taking away things your kids love isn't the way to do it. And I was like, clearly, no, sorry.

Claire: I remember interviewing a guy once who talked about how timeouts were a form of emotional abuse, you know, and I was like, well, what have you got? What can you do? Are you talking to a three-year-old? And like really trying to explain to him, you know, and that was one of my first times being like, maybe experts don't always know what's best for me.

Lindsey Stanberry: They don’t. What works for your family might not work for my family.

Claire: Lindsay, what are you like monitoring? What are people bringing to you or asking you or what's coming up do you feel is I don't wanna say a trend, but things that you've been noticing that people are more concerned about with regards to teaching their kids about financial literacy or like how [01:01:00] they're preparing for their kids' futures.

I don't know if there's anything like new catchphrases?

Quinn: Or also because we cover this as well, it's just like purely just the parenting side. Like any specific parenting financial stuff that's coming up and trendy.

Lindsey Stanberry: I think the struggle with all of it is always like, how do you know what's age appropriate and then how do you not dump your baggage on them?

Claire: Yeah, I can only imagine, especially I'm imagining like girls, I mean not only girls, but like girls who are on TikTok and like doing the beauty things and things like that.

Lindsey Stanberry: The beauty thing is so crazy. We have a friend who has a 10-year-old daughter and the friend is not into beauty products at all. And her daughter is obsessed. I mean, talk about like controlling what your kid spends money on. It's like you do not need Drunk Elephant.

I do not buy Drunk Elephant, like, you know, it's just like shopping in Sephora. It's wild.

Claire: Yeah.

Lindsey Stanberry: I feel a little spoiled that I have a boy. And like the big fight we're having is over Roblox. I'll take that over. You know what to buy at [01:02:00] Sephora any day.

Claire: Yeah. Like my kids are not buying things to make themselves look prettier or nicer or cooler you know, maybe I wouldn't even mind if they did a tiny bit to be honest.

Lindsey Stanberry: Funny, I was on vacation and this kid, this little boy, he must have been five or six, was in the pool with his mom and he was explaining to her how he needed this particular Nike sweatshirt. And she was like, but you already have a Nike sweatshirt. And he was like, no, that Nike sweatshirt has a hood and this one is gray and it's crew neck.

I was like, who is this small little boy? Which like, not to be all gendered, but truly it's like a small fashion, you know, shopaholic. It was adorable. But also I was like, man.

Quinn: The way my dad would've handled that. I mean, I can't even imagine. It almost probably would've been like, quiet, just like stonewalled. What are you talking about, I mean, I think I've told Claire this story when I was like 14. 13, 14. It was either not a lot of money. We were good or you know, we were, it was tight.[01:03:00]

And my dad was a part owner of this seafood restaurant downtown. It's a hundred yards from here. And I remember 13, 14. And if we needed something for school or extracurriculars, like needed, qualify needed, they helped us with that. If we wanted something, a whole different ball game.

And I remember so specifically being like, listen, parents, here's the deal. These Ken Griffey Jr. Cleats are, they're, it, they are, what was the word we all used? They're phat. PHAT, like this. This was it. High tops, the jam. And they were like, that's so great. Get on your fucking bike and I just called, you can go wash dishes, best wishes, like you're gonna make whatever it was, $4 an hour or something like that.

And I remember earning those cleats, but that was it. I can't imagine like complaining in the pool that I wanted a different Nike sweatshirt.

Lindsey Stanberry: The needs and wants thing is really important and I feel like my kid's still too small, but we're getting [01:04:00] there.

Claire: Random, not really so much about the giving your kids money, but in the pursuit of spending money to take care of our kids. I'm just curious where you live. What is the going rate for a babysitter these days?

Lindsey Stanberry: Well, I spend a lot 'cause I like my babysitter, but she's $25 an hour.

Claire: Oh wow. Okay. All right. Interesting. And is she an adult or is she a school age person?

Lindsey Stanberry: She was his two's program teacher.

Quinn: That's great.

Lindsey Stanberry: I learned that pretty early on in Brooklyn, find the daycare teachers and preschool teachers and hire them.

Quinn: Yeah.

Lindsey Stanberry: She actually does stuff with him. And I've learned that I like to have her come early and come home early because then she like gets outta the house and has to actually earn that $25 an hour and is not, you know, sitting on my couch on her computer.

We have this other babysitter that requires that we send home in a car because she lives so far away, but Ubers have gotten so expensive in New [01:05:00] York that it's like an additional, like $60. And I'm like, I can't hire you anymore.

I think she's only 20 bucks an hour. But still the math doesn't math.

Claire: Quinn, I, how about, I know you guys have grandparents around and your kids are a little bit older, so I dunno how much you're hiring babysitters, but if you do, like what's the rate?

Quinn: Yeah, so we don't really that much. We're so lucky with that. And also we really, one, for reasons I kind of described earlier, we don't really have too much of a nighttime social life. We don't do a lot, which is mostly fine by me. I'm regular tired and an introvert. This is my social interaction for the week.

But we also two, drag all the kids everywhere and we tell them all the time you guys are gonna get busy enough, you won't be able to go to each other's shit. So we're doing that. And then three, yes, we got the grandmas, but we were extremely privileged, lucky, however you wanna put it. We had the kids when we were in Los Angeles and then part of the time when they were here, 'cause she came here, the kids had the same nanny. Daytime nanny, [01:06:00] one of the greatest people alive. She's now in her mid fifties, late fifties from the time my oldest was three months old until about a year ago.

And we both worked full time and it was otherwise impossible and it made affording to live in Los Angeles extremely difficult, but either one of us wouldn't. It's the trade off that everyone in America is making right now, whether it's a nanny, which very few people can have, or childcare, which also very few fucking people can have right now.

Which is do you stay home with a kid and not make the money? Or do you make the money and the entire paycheck goes to a version of childcare? Keeping in mind those childcare personnel are also underpaid, which is why they're hiring themselves at a babysitters after a day with three year olds, which is, the whole thing makes flames come outta my face. But we were very lucky and we chose a number of times to raise her pay one 'cause she deserved it. And she was, same thing, I mean, not a phone in [01:07:00] sight, always going somewhere, always doing something, always active, always, you know, music and all that different stuff.

And we were very lucky in that respect, I would gladly and definitely did like at times go well we're not paying for this thing 'cause we can't let her go on that front. But now they're definitely old enough that they can again, bounce around to the grandmas. They're in an easier place to live. They, you know, most of their childcare is literally just driving them to stuff. And frankly, again, I’m sentimental and they don't wanna have conversations with me. I like to drive them places because I trap them in my car for 20 minutes with me to talk about things. So I'll just keep doing that. I don't want someone else to do that.

And I'm lucky enough to be flexible to do it. So the answer is we used to pay a lot. We really did. And there's times that was very questionable if you just did the math. But if you factored everything else in, like we had to. I couldn't have imagined making a different choice. We had friends who, you know, where it sounds like, you know, you've [01:08:00] got a couple babysitters who you rely on and swear by.

You know, they would become really dependent on some young 22-year-old who was great and full of energy, who didn't wanna be a baby sitter or a nanny forever. And every six months they had to find someone new. And pros and cons to everything, certainly. But I was like, I don't have time.

And also, it's so competitive out there for anything.

I mean, I remember touring preschools and them being like, well, this is how we set them up for college. And I was like, he's two. And they were like, well, you're not gonna get in anyways. And so it was both the easiest decision for us to make and a hard one at times.

But I couldn't be more truly thankful for almost anything in our life than this person. So we paid a lot. And now we don't. And that's a little different. It's because of age and grandma's, but that's where we are.

Lindsey Stanberry: How much is the going rate in Chicago, Claire?

Claire: We only have one reliable lady that we use. We're merging on the edge of being able to leave them home alone, depending on where we go. But there's the lady that they have a [01:09:00] crush on, I think we all have a crush on. Lady is not the right word. She's a high school student. She just is very composed.

And so I refer to her as a lady, but she gets $15 an hour and she drives herself, which is huge. She brings games, which is great 'cause there are sitters who just do screens with them. And key is she takes Venmo and Zelle, which is great. 'cause like you end up doing like the 50% tip, which of course sitters deserve, but you're, you know, sometimes you just don't feel like making change. I have found myself like giving sitters, especially female sitters a little pep talk because you'll get like a young lady who will sit and you're like, what's your rate? And they're like, oh, whatever.

Quinn: That's my wife's biggest thing. She's like well, guess what? Now we're gonna sit down for 20 minutes and fucking, I'm gonna make you fight for your money.

Claire: Yeah, exactly. And give them a rate, you know? And even if it's like aggressive, say it 'cause that means you deserve it.

But yeah, it's kind of weird 'cause my parents are like, are we fired as babysitters? And you're like, yeah, kinda like you asked too many times what time their bedtime is and now you're fired.

Yeah, it's [01:10:00] getting nice to have them be a little bit older. And again, no phone thing is its own thing. But yeah, we used to have these fun boy sitters who would come and they would play hard with the boys, but also lacked common sense. So I have to say things like, please make sure you throw away the Jimmy John's wrappers, like when we come home or have the kids in bed when we come home.

'Cause that really sucks to come home and pay a sitter and then put them to bed. I’m like you pay me now.

Quinn: It's the whole thing. Yeah.

Lindsey Stanberry: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, we dock your pay if he's not asleep when we come home.

Claire: Yeah, I mean, I think every day about how my life might be different if we had full-time childcare. Because we had the kids in daycare and then school and then we never had like a long-term nanny or babysitter.

And another thing my kid did not wanna hear yesterday, 'cause my husband and I both work for ourselves and we both are super slammed right now, and like taking our computer to the baseball game and working after bedtime and, you know, all this like boring, tedious stuff. And I told my kid, I was like, believe it or not, even though dad and I complain about our [01:11:00] work all the time, like we have it the best case scenario.

Like we work from home and we work for ourselves. And I'm like, so just imagine, I was kind of trying to say work sucks, just so you know. Like no matter what happens if you're earning money, it's hard. But he, you know, he is like, I'm 12. Like he's thinking about his own thing. Like he didn't wanna hear that.